>> ERIC: HAVE WE MENTIONED IT'S FINAL FRIDAY OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

YEAH, WE HAVE.

SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL TONIGHT.

IT'S A GROUP THAT REMEMBERS WELL THE SLEEPLESS FINAL NIGHTS OF SESSION.

DEMOCRATS UP FIRST.

FORMER SENATE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER JEFF HAYDEN IS HERE.

FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW ATTORNEY, ABOU AMARA JOINS US.

REPUBLICANS ON THE COUCH TONIGHT.

FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AMY KOCH.

AND ROUNDING OUT THE PANEL, FORMER GOVERNOR PAWLENTY SPOKESPERSON BRIAN MCCLUNG.

MADAM LEADER?

>> YES.

>> Referee: WE ABLE TO CLOSE THE BOOK ON THE '23-'24 SESSION SO WE KNOW WHAT THE FALL CAMPAIGN IS GOING O LOOK LIKE, ARE DO WE NEED THE WEEKEND TO FIGURE IT OUT?

>> I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THE WEEKEND TO FIGURE OUT .

THERE IS TIME.

WE'RE NO TOO LATE.

YOU HEARD THE LEADERS SAY THAT.

THERE REALLY IS.

I SAY THERE'S BEEN GLUE POURED ALL OVER THE SENATE AND HOUSE FLOOR BECAUSE OF THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS BECAUSE OF THE DYNAMICS THERE, THERE'S NOT BEEN REALLY GOOD BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT.

IF THERE WERE, THEY COULD UNSTICK ALL THOSE FLOORS AND THINGS WOULD MOVE PRETTY SMOOTHLY, THEY COULD GET SOME THINGS DONE, LIKE BONDING, SPORTS BETTING, YOU KNOW, AND OTHER BUDGET BILLS.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU HEAR HERE ON THE COUCH WITH THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS THAT MADE YOU THINK, OH, THAT'S INTERESTING, ANYTHING?

>> WELL, HEN LEADER DEMUTH SAID, I THINK WE CAN WORK THIS OUT, RIGHT?

I THINK SHE HAS BEEN A REALLY CALM, STEADY VOICE AT THE LEGISLATURE.

THIS IS HER FIRST TERM AS THE REPUBLICAN LEADER IN THE HOUSE.

AND I THINK SHE'S BROUGHT THAT.

I MEAN, SENATOR JOHNSON AS WELL.

I THINK YOU SEE FROM THE REPUBLICANS A WILLINGNESS TO DO THIS.

BUT THEY HAVE TO BE INCLUDED.

AND REPUBLICANS REALLY FEEL, AND THIS IS TRUE ALWAYS, RIGHT, THE MINORITY FEELS LEFT OUT, BUT YOU SEE IT ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR.

THAT REPUBLICANS FEEL LIKE THEY REALLY HAVE NOT BEEN PART OF THESE KEY CONVERSATIONS.

AND THAT HAS TO CHANGE.

HAS TO CHANGE RIGHT AWAY.

IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A SMOOTH END OVER THESE LAST 72 HOURS, YOU NEED TO HAVE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT, A LOFT THESE BILLS NEED BIPARTISAN VOTES.

>> WELL, TWO THINGS.

FIRST, REMEMBER, THIS IS NOT A BUDGET YEAR.

THIS IS NOT A YEAR WHERE ANYTHING MASSIVELY NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

SO THIS IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ICING ON TOP OF THE CAKE, IF YOU WILL, RIGHT?

WE'VE GOT FOLKS WORKING HARD TO GET TO THE END OF SESSION.

THAT'S POINT NUMBER ONE.

POINT NUMBER WO, I CTUALLY THINK I HEARD THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, ERIN MURPHY, REALLY TALK ABOUT, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS, ABOUT HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY LAND THIS PLANE, CONSISTENTLY SHE SAID, WE'LL SEE WHAT THE HOUSE DOES, WE'LL SEE WHAT THE HOUSE DOES, THAT TELLS ME THAT THERE'S STILL DYNAMICS AT PLAY THAT LEADERSHIP DOESN'T KNOW ACTUALLY IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE E.R.A.?

WELL, GO AHEAD.

>> LET ME SAY THIS.

I DISAGREE, BRIAN.

THEY CONTINUE TO BE INVOLVED, YOU CAN'T MAKE A DEAL WITH THEM NOT BEING INVOLVED.

THE GOP HAS BEEN INVOLVED.

THE THINGS -- I THINK THE DYNAMIC IS, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT BACK STAGE, IS THIS IDEA OF THE E.R.A.

AND WHAT DO YOU DO?

NOW HERE'S A LITTLE CAVEAT ON THE E.R.A.

THE SENATE BILL FROM LAST YEAR AND THE HOUSE BILL ARE DIFFERENT.

SO, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE DEMOCRATS UNDERSTAND WHAT E.R.A.

BILL IS GOING TO PASS TO THEN TALK TALK TO REPUBLICANS TO SEE IF ANY PART OF IT IS WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

>> WELL, THERE HAS BEEN AN E.R.A.

BILL THAT PASSED RECENTLY IN THE SENATE THAT WAS BIPARTISAN.

HAD BIPARTISAN VOTES.

SO, IT IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE.

BUT YOU CAN'T LOAD IT UP WITH A BUNCH OF THINGS, RIGHT?

>> BY THINGS YOU MEAN RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE ACROSS MINNESOTA.

>> I DON'T MEAN BY RIGHTS.

I MEAN, LIKE ALL -- IT IS A HEAVY CHRISTMAS TREE OF OTHER THINGS.

THE E.R.A., YOU KNOW, WAS FORMED AS EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT FOR WOMEN.

IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR.

EXAMINE IT'S NOT PASSED -- AND IT'S NOT PASSED SINCE -- I MEAN, SINCE I WAS BORN IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT.

AND I'M OLD.

OLDER, OLD ENOUGH THAT IT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE ALREADY PASSED.

THERE'S A PATH.

>> WE HAVE EVOLVED IN TERMS OF WHAT IT STARTED OUT TO BE AND WHAT WE TALK ABOUT TODAY.

SO I DON'T NECESSARILY -- I AGREE WITH ABOU, THESE ARE NEW RIGHTS THAT -- NO NOT NEW RIGHTS, NEW RIGHTS HAT PEOPLE HAVE EMERGED AND SAID THEY NEED TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS, TOO.

>> THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA GET TO DECIDE.

REPUBLICANS ARE AFRAID THAT IF THIS GOES ON THE BALLOT, PEOPLE WILL SAY YES.

>> I THINK ULTIMATELY IT'S A POLITICAL QUESTION.

SHOCK OF SHOCKS, THERE'S POLITICS AT THE CAPITOL.

DO DEMOCRATS WANT THIS ON THE BALLOT THIS FALL TO HELP WITH TURNOUT OR DO THE STATE SENATE DEMOCRATS PREFER THAT IT GETS PUNTED TILL TWO YEARS FROM NOW WHEN THEY'RE ON THE BALLOT AND THE GOVERNOR'S ON THE BALLOT?

I THINK YOU SEE A LITTLE BIT OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL DISCHORD BETWEEN HOUSE AND SENATE BECAUSE, ULTIMATELY, THESE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TEND TO BE ABOUT VOTER TURNOUT.

LET'S BE REAL.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> SO WE'LL SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY ACTUALLY GET IT ON THE BALLOT FOR THIS YEAR.

>> R WE'VE GOT TO BE CLEAR.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT VOTER TURNOUT.

DEMOCRATS HAVE WON EVERY STATEWIDE LECS ELECTION FOR 20 YEARS.

>> FOUR SEATS, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> SO I THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING FOR WHATEVER ADVANTAGE THEY CAN FIND, RIGHT?

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD BE THINKING LIKE THAT.

>> YEAH, BUT IT IS A MORE DIVERSE HOUSE, IN PARTICULAR, AND A MORE DIVERSE SENATE THAN EVER.

SO I THINK NEW VOICES COULD COME TO -- HAVE COME TO THE TABLE.

YOUR POLITICAL CALCULATION IN A VERY TRADITIONAL WAY IS RIGHT.

I THINK THERE'S PEOPLE WHO REALLY ACTUALLY CARE, THEY'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT WHAT -- BECAUSE IF THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTION, THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS THEY WOULDN'T BE DOING.

>> I ACTUALLY THINK THAT AS WELL.

I THINK THE POLITICAL CALCULATION ON CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS CAN BE PROBLEMATIC, ACTUALLY.

WE TEND TO PASS MONEY, WE DON'T TEND TO -- WE TEND TO PASS THOSE AMENDMENTS, WE DON'T TEND TO PASS POLICY QUESTIONS, SOCIAL ISSUES.

AND, SO, I ACTUALLY THINK THAT IT PUTS A QUESTION MARK ON THE BALLOT THAT PERHAPS THE SPEAKER DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE WHEN SHE HAS THOSE SIMPLE FOUR-SEAT MAJORITY.

>> Eric: PRESIDENT TRUMP IN TOWN TONIGHT.

I WONDER IF THIS IS ONE F THOSE WHERE IT FIRES UP BOTH SIDES.

AND IS A POLITICAL WINNER FOR THE DEMOCRATS WHO CAN RAISE MONEY BECAUSE HERE COMES TRUMP.

AND, OF COURSE, THE REPUBLICANS ARE EXCITED ABOUT TRUMP.

I MEAN, ISN'T THIS A TWO-ER IF?

>> YEAH, BUT HE WOULD LOVE TO PUT MINNESOTA IN PLAY, RIGHT?

HE'S LOOKING AT THE BATTLEGROUND STATES.

RIGHT NOW, ESSENTIALLY, IN THE SEVEN KEY BATTLEGROUND STATES, DONALD TRUMP IS LEADING IN THE POLLS.

SO HE IS LOOKING TO EXPAND THE MAP AND HE LOOKS AT MINNESOTA, HE THINKS ABOUT BACK IN 2016, WHEN HE LOST BY, YOU KNOW, A POINT AND A HALF, AND, SO, HE WOULD LOVE TO PUT MINNESOTA IN PLAY.

AND IT HASN'T BEEN WON BY A REPUBLICAN SINCE '72.

>> Eric: 48 YEARS.

>> SO JUST FOR HIM, THINK ABOUT TRUMP'S EGO, IM, SAYING, LIKE, I COULD BE THE GUY WHO CHANGES THAT.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHEN HE GETS THE INVITE.

HE'S LIKE, YEAH, OF COURSE I'M COMING TO MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: POLLS SHOW IT IS CLOSE HERE IN MINNESOTA AT THIS POINT.

>> AT THIS POINT.

IF YOU LOOK HISTORICALLY, THEY GENERALLY SHOW A CLOSE RACE.

AS THE RACE GETS CLOSE, THE POLLING STARTS TO DEVIATE FROM THE NORM.

THAT'S WHY REPUBLICANS HAVEN'T WON IN 40 YEARS.

I'M NOT ACTUALLY CONCERNED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, IN FACT, I'M EXCITED HE'S HERE, BECAUSE IT'S A REMINDER TO DEMOCRATS TO MOBILIZE, DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES, DESPITE THE WAR IN GAZA THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE A THREAT THAT WE HAVE TO COME ACROSS TO.

>> I THINK THAT WHAT YOU SEE FROM THE POLLS, IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS NEED THAT.

BECAUSE, FRANKLY, IT'S THE REPUBLICANS AND THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS THAT ARE SUPER FIRED UP AND IT'S THE DEMOCRATS THAT ARE PRETTY DISSPIRITED AND THEY'RE PRETTY DIVIDED WHEN IT COMES TO GAZA AND THEY ACTUALLY NEED THIS JOLT.

THEY'RE NOT -- WHEN YOU SEE THE POLLS, THEY'RE NOT EXCITED ABOUT VOTING FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.

THEY'RE EXCITED TO VOTE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

THAT'S THE ONLY ENERGY THAT THEY'VE GOT RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: SENATOR HAYDEN, I WONDER IF THE POLITICAL PROBLEMS OF BIDEN AND TRUMP BLEED DOWN TO DOWN-BALLOT RACES, ARE THOSE SEPARATE FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY USUALLY KIND OF FOLLOW.

LIKE THE NATIONAL TRENDS USUALLY FOLLOW.

SO DEPENDING UPON THE MARGINS, WE GOT FOUR IN THE HOUSE, WE COULD HAVE TWO OPEN SEATS, CERTAINLY ONE IF WE TALK ABOUT SENATOR MORRISON, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO SENATOR MITCHELL IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

SO THERE OULD BE TWO SEATS THAT YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT IN THE SENATE AS WELL.

SO, I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT T. WE GOT TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT.

I ALSO WILL SAY THAT THE POLLS HAVE SAID THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR, IN PARTICULAR, BLACK AND LATINO MEN, ARE MOVING FROM DEMOCRATS, NOT ONLY TO REPUBLICANS, BUT VOTING FOR TRUMP, WHICH I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT.

>> Cathy: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WHAT DO YOU THINK -- WHAT'S BEHIND THAT?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

I'VE BEEN AROUND, I TALK TO, YOU KNOW, AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN ALL THE TIME.

A LOT OF THEM SAY THAT, AND I'LL SYNTHESIZE IT FOR A LITTLE BIT, TRANSLATE THIS, THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM SPEAKS TO THEM SPECIFICALLY.

THAT IT SPEAKS TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS THAT MAY HELP THEM, MEDICAID AND OTHERS, IT SPEAKS REALLY CLEARLY TO WOMEN AND THE THINGS THAT WOMEN NEED BUT IT DOESN'T SPEAK TO THEM.

>> LOOK, I THINK YOU HAVE A COMBINATION OF THINGS.

ONE, INFLATION AND THE ECONOMY ARE STILL FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES.

FRERNS, YOU KNOW, DISPROPORTIONATELY ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY THE ECONOMY.

AFRICAN AMERICANS.

IF IT'S DOING BAD FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION, IT'S GO TO BE WORSE FOR THEM.

THERE'S UNDERLYING ISSUES.

THE ELECTION, DON'T COMPARE THEM TO THE ALMIGHTY, COMPARE THEM TO THE ALTERNATIVE.

THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRATS HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE IN THIS ELECTION.

IT IS TRUE, WE ARE NOT WHERE WE WANT TO BE.

IT IS TRUE, JOE BIDEN IS MAYBE NOT THE MOST EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATOR.

THAT'S KNOTS THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT IS THE CHOICE BEFORE VOTERS.

THAT'S WHAT VOTERS AVE TO REMEMBER.

>> I WANT TO KEY OFF ONE THING SENATOR HAYDEN SAID, WE COULD HAVE TWO SPECIAL ELECTIONS IN THE STATE SENATE, I THINK IF SENATOR MITCHELL IS PRESSURED TO RESIGN, AFTER THE SESSION, THEY DON'T NEED THE 34th VOTE, I THINK THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PRESSURE FOR HER TO RESIGN, THE ETHICS CASE IS NOT HANGING OUT THERE, THEY DON'T WANT THAT TO BE THE HEADLINE, FOR THAT TO HAPPEN ON THE REGULAR SCHEDULE, SHE NEEDS TO RESIGN BY JUNE 8th.

SAME WITH SENATOR MORRISON.

BUT IF THEY BOTH RESIGN, THERE ARE 32 DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE AND 33 REPUBLICANS.

SO NOW REPUBLICANS, ACTUALLY, IN THE INTERIM, IF YOU BROUGHT THEM BACK IN A SPECIAL ELECTION, WOULD HAVE THE MAJORITY, YOU'D HAVE MAJORITY LEADER MARK JOHNSON.

NOW, THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT, THE GOVERNOR CALLING THEM BACK INTO THAT SCENARIO IS VERY HOE N MIND IT'S MINNESOTA POLITICS.

SO WE ALWAYS HAVE WEIRD THINGS.

WHAT IF THERE WERE A TRAGEDY, A DISASTER, OR ANOTHER REASON THAT YOU NEED THE LEGISLATURE IN SESSION, RIGHT?

SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT WILL ALL PLAY OUT.

AND ENATOR MITCHELL SHOULD RESIGN.

RIGHT?

GIVEN THE FACT THAT SHE IS FACING THESE FELONY BURGLARY CHARGES, SHE SHOULD RESIGN, THAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO CLEAR THAT UP AND TO HAVE SOME CERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE SENATE.

>> Cathy: SO ANYWAY RIDESHARE BILL THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT THROUGH, THERE WOULDN'T BE A SPECIAL SESSION NECESSARILY?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT, YEAH.

>> I DON'T THINK SHE -- I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK SHE RESIGNS RIGHT AWAY.

>> I DON'T THINK SHE RESIGNS ANYWAY.

>> I DON'T THINK SHE DOES.

I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING.

>> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

THE QUESTION CAN BE -- >> WE AGREE, ON SENATOR MITCHELL.

WE DIDN'T LAST TIME.

>> I THINK THERE IS AGREEMENT ON A LOT OF THE ISSUES.

SPORTS BETTING THE I WORK A LITTLE BIT.

SOME OF US DO.

RIDESHARE.

I THINK THERE'S AGREEMENT THERE.

THE QUESTION IS, AND THEN MY TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, IS WILL REPUBLICANS GIVE THOSE VOTES IN THERE'S NOT A GLOBAL DEAL?

SO IF YOU TOOK THE DEALS INDIVIDUALLY, I THINK THEY'RE PRETTY CLOSE.

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THAT ONE LINCHPIN THAT REPUBLICANS NEED?

>> Eric: YOU GUYS PACE YOURSELF OVER THE WEEKEND NOW.

>> I'M GOING BACK OVER THERE NOW.

>> Eric: ENJOY THE WEEKEND.

THANKS.

WITH SO MUCH POLITICAL NEWS TO COVER THIS WEEK, WE'VE RUN LONG TONIGHT SO WE'LL SAVE OUR HISTORY SECTION OF THE SHOW FOR NEXT WEEK.

COUPLE OF QUICK TUNE-IN REMINDERS FOR YOU.

THE LEGISLATURE IS HEADING FOR THE HOME STRETCH.

YOU CAN WATCH THE ACTION ON THE STATEWIDE MINNESOTA CHANNEL AS THEY HEAD FOR ADJOURNMENT ON MONDAY.

MAKE SURE TO TUNE IN TO OUR SISTER PROGRAM "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" NEXT WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 ON THE SAME PBS STATEWIDE MINNESOTA CHANNEL.

IT'S THE LAST EPISODE OF THIS YEAR AND MARY LAHAMMER WILL WRAP UP THE SESSION FOR YOU WITH