PRESIDENT TRUMP'S DRIVE TO SHRINK THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE HAS TOUCHED ABOUT EVERY AGENCY, INCLUDING THE FAA, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AIR SAFETY.

IT COMES AT A TIME WHEN SAFETY IS GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF RECENT INCIDENTS, INCLUDING JANUARY'S MID-AIR COLLISION OF A PASSENGER JET AND AN ARMY HELICOPTER.

AN ASSOCIATED PRESS NORC CENTER FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS POLL LAST MONTH FOUND THAT 64% OF AMERICANS QUESTIONED SAID FLYING IS VERY SAFE OR SOMEWHAT SAFE.

THAT'S DOWN FROM 71% LAST YEAR.

ISAAC STANLEY BECKER IS A STAFF WRITER FOR THE ATLANTIC.

THE HEADLINE ON HIS STORY, LAST IN THE LAST ISSUE IS THE FAA'S TROUBLES ARE MORE SERIOUS THAN YOU KNOW.

ISAAC, WHAT IS THE SCALE OF THE LAYOFFS AT THE FAA?

HOW BIG ARE THEY?

ISAAC: THIS IS STILL TAKING SHAPE.

THE PRIMARY TWO WAYS THAT THE WORKFORCE IS BEING REDUCED IS THROUGH THE DISMISSAL OF PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES.

AND THEN THIS OFFER OF EARLY RETIREMENT THAT WE SAW AT THE END OF JANUARY.

NOW, THERE ARE SOME LEGAL HANGUPS AROUND THE DISMISSAL OF THE PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT IN THE COURTS, BUT IT COULD BE QUITE EXTENSIVE.

THAT IS WHAT MY REPORTING FOUND.

I WAS ABLE TO GET AHOLD OF SOME INTERNAL FAA DATA THAT SHOWED THAT MORE THAN 1300 PEOPLE AT THE AGENCY REPLIED TO THAT OFFER OF EARLY RETIREMENT, WITH MOST OF THEM QUITE INTERESTED IN TAKING IT.

AND THAT INCLUDED SOME PEOPLE IN QUITE CRITICAL SAFETY ROLES .

AVIATION SAFETY TECHNICIANS, QUALITY ASSURANCE SPECIALISTS, ENGINEERS AND PEOPLE WHO DO A LOT OF THE REALLY IMPORTANT BACKGROUND WORK THAT HELPS THOSE FRONTLINE SAFETY WORKERS DO THEIR JOBS CORRECTLY AND ACCURATELY.

JOHN: WE ASKED THE FAA ABOUT THE CUTS IN AVIATION SAFETY.

THEY SAID THE FAA CONTINUES TO HIRE AND ONBOARD AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AND SAFETY PROFESSIONALS, INCLUDING MECHANICS AND OTHERS WHO SUPPORT THEM.

THE AGENCY HAS RETAINED EMPLOYEES WHO PERFORM SAFETY CRITICAL FUNCTIONS.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE LAID OFF MAY NOT BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH SAFETY, BUT THEY HAVE SORT OF TANGENTIAL CONNECTIONS TO IT?

ISAAC: WELL, WE SAW THE AGENCY MOVE TO EXEMPT FROM THAT BUYOUT PROGRAM AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, WHICH HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION RECENTLY AFTER THAT TERRIBLE, TRAGIC INCIDENT AT REAGAN AIRPORT.

I SPOKE TO OFFICIALS INSIDE THE FAA, INCLUDING VERY SENIOR OFFICIALS, WHO SAID THAT THERE WERE STILL CRITICAL SAFETY FUNCTIONS THAT SUPPORT THOSE FRONT LINE SAFETY STAFF THAT WERE BEING SACRIFICED.

JUST TO GIVE ONE EXAMPLE, AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION SPECIALISTS.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO UPDATE THE CHARTS AND THE MAPS AND THE KEY DATA AFTER THERE ARE DISRUPTIONS OR DISTURBANCES IN AIRSPACE, WEATHER, NATURAL DISASTERS, A COLLISION AND ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION.

AND WHAT I FOUND IS THAT THROUGH THE COMBINATION OF THAT BUYOUT PROGRAM AND THE DISMISSAL, PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES, ABOUT 12% OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE HAVE EITHER LEFT AGENCY OR ARE POISED TO LEAVE THE AGENCY.

AND THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT ROLE.

SO IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT THE FAA IS TAKING STEPS TO RETAIN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AND EVEN DO SOME ADDITIONAL HIRING BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH CONSIDERING SOME OF THE OTHER LESS WELL RECOGNIZED ROLES THAT ARE BEING SACRIFICED AMID ALL OF THIS.

JOHN: HOW CONCERNED ARE THE PEOPLE YOU TALK WITHIN THE AGENCY ABOUT THOSE LAYOFFS?

ISAAC: WHAT I'LL SAY IS THIS I THINK THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED.

THEY ALSO STRESS THE REDUNDANCIES AND RESILIENCIES BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM, AND EMPHASIZED THAT THESE ARE ABSOLUTE PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF ENSURING THE SAFETY OF THIS SYSTEM THAT MILLIONS OF PASSENGERS RELY ON EVERY DAY TO MOVE SAFELY AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE AGENCY, THOUGH, TO SAY MORE ABOUT WHAT IT'S DOING TO REASSURE THE WORKFORCE, TO FILL SOME OF THESE CRITICAL POSITIONS AND TO ENSURE THAT OUR AVIATION SAFETY SYSTEM REMAINS THE GOLD STANDARD.

JOHN: THE MAIN FIGURE IN ALL THIS WORKFORCE REDUCTION IS, OF COURSE, ELON MUSK.

HIS STARLINK HAS OFFERED TO UPGRADE THE FAA'S COMMUNICATION SYSTEM, WHICH IS OUTDATED, AND THIS HAS BEEN A LONG, ONGOING STORY FOR THEM.

THEY'VE STARTED TESTING, AND YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

ISAAC: THERE ARE.

AND YOU MAKE SUCH A CRITICAL POINT ABOUT THE SYSTEM BEING OUTDATED AND THIS BEING A LONG TIME CONCERN.

IT'S A SYSTEM THAT DATES TO 2002.

IT STILL USES COPPER WIRING, OTHER KINDS OF OUTDATED SYSTEMS, AND THE AGENCY HAS BEEN AWARE OF THIS.

IN 2023, THEY AWARDED A $2.4 BILLION CONTRACT TO VERIZON TO UPGRADE THE SYSTEM.

WHAT MUSK WANTS TO DO IS DEPLOY THOUSANDS OF STARLINK TERMINALS FROM HIS PRIVATE COMPANY, SPACEX, AROUND THE COUNTRY TO SUPPORT THE AGENCY'S COMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND I THINK THE CONCERNS ARE REALLY TWOFOLD.

ONE IS ABOUT POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO HAS AN INTEREST IN THE COMMERCIAL SUCCESS OF THIS COMPANY.

AND ALSO IT'S A COMPANY THAT IS A REGULATED ENTITY BEFORE OTHER DIVISIONS OF THE FAA AND THEN ALSO SOME SECURITY, SOME CYBERSECURITY CONCERNS.

I SPOKE TO EXPERTS WHO PARTICIPATED IN A CONFIDENTIAL TASK FORCE LAST YEAR AROUND CYBERSECURITY FOR THE FAA.

AND THEY SAID THERE'S A REASON WHY CONTRACTORS LIKE VERIZON ARE USED, AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY'VE GONE THROUGH A VERY RIGOROUS SECURITY AND COMPLIANCE PROCESS, KNOWN AS FEDRAMP, TO ENSURE CYBERSECURITY STANDARDS, THREAT PREVENTION AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

AND STARLINK AND SPACEX HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

JOHN: YOU MENTIONED SPACEX, WHICH ALSO IS REGULATED AS, AS YOU SAY, BY THE FAA LAST FALL, THE FAA MOVED TO FINE SPACEX OVER SOME LICENSING ISSUES.

AND ELON MUSK REFERRED TO IT CALLED IT LAWFARE.

ARE THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT THAT, THAT HE HAS INTEREST BEFORE THE FAA?

ISAAC: THERE ARE CONCERNS.

AND I THINK THAT A NUMBER OF THESE PEOPLE, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK IN TERMS OF THE WORST CASE.

SO WHAT THEIR CONCERN IS, AND THE WORST CASE IS THAT YOU'RE MAKING THE COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK OF THIS CRITICAL AGENCY DEPENDENT ON THIS BILLIONAIRE TRUMP ALLY.

AND WHAT IF YOU WERE TO SET TO - - WHAT IF YOU WERE TO DECIDE TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION OR DO SOMETHING DRASTIC?

WE'VE SEEN HOW THESE STARLINK TERMINALS ARE USED IN UKRAINE, AND ITS CONFLICT WITH RUSSIA.

AND THERE WAS AN INSTANCE IN 2022 WHEN MUSK DECIDED TO SHUT SOME OF THOSE TERMINALS OFF BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT THEM USED AS PART OF AN OFFENSIVE RAID AGAINST RUSSIA.

AND THIS FACED A LOT OF CRITICISM AT THE TIME.

BUT THE E NCERN AGAIN IS WHAT IF BECAUSE OF AN N VERSE ACTION BY THE FAA, HE WERE TO BE SO ENRAGED BY THIS THAT HE WOULD TRY TO USE THE TERMINALS USED AS PART OF THE COMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE AS LEVERAGE?

AND THAT WOULD, I THINK, BE A KIND OF WORST CASE FOR THE AGENCY.

JOHN: ISAAC STANLEY BECKER OF THE ATLANTIC, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ISAAC: THANK YOU.