<opening music> ♪ ♪ <Gavin> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

The House and Senate begin a new legislative session this upcoming Tuesday with abortion, medical marijuana and tax breaks being some of the major issues facing legislators.

The Associated Press' Jeffrey Collins and the State's, Maayan Schechter break down the top priorities.

Jeffrey and Maayan thanks for being here and happy New Year.

<Maayan> Happy New Year Gavin.

Happy New Year Gavin <Gavin> Happy New Session too, right.

Jeffrey, I want to talk with you.

First off, the 125th General Assembly convenes on Tuesday for its two year session.

So, lawmakers are in Columbia Tuesday through Thursday, up and through mid May.

They're doing committee meetings are having hearings on bills.

They're doing some floor debates and votes.

This goes on in the 46 members Senate and the 124 member House, but there was substantial transition in the House, there's a lot going on there with the past election, talk to us about what we saw happen there.

And what happened and how the 27 new members coming into that Chamber are going to affect things.

<Jeffrey> I mean, the sheer numbers are very surprising.

I mean, the 27 new members is one of the biggest freshman classes anyone can remember going way back, you know, and then also they're going to be more conservative.

I mean, Republicans picked up seven seats, they have a super majority now in the House for the first time since Reconstruction, it doesn't make a huge difference in the House because of the way the House operates, and its rules, two thirds doesn't make a big deal, but it does allow them some freedom, especially if they have arguments amongst themselves to still get things passed, even if 10 or 15 of them aren't really happy with it.

You know, and another big thing is the House is going to be much less diverse and much more male.

I mean, they lost a few women in a Chamber that already doesn't have a lot of women, especially compared to what you would think would be a 50/50 split in society, and they also lost several African American members too.

And I mean, so this House is going to be dominated by White males more than typical.

<Gavin> And Maayan, kind of piggyback on what Jeffrey was talking about there in terms of the demographics and just what we can maybe expect, again, a lot, 27 new members come in.

Everyone has their priorities, but I think everyone's going to soon fall in line and soon understand just how things work in the statehouse.

<Maayan> Right well, we will really get to see how effective the new House speaker is Murrell Smith, of course, he became House Speaker last year, but was reelected to the post this year.

This is his first full session leading the Chamber.

We know he has respect across the aisle.

But he will be really focused right on getting the Republican priorities across the finish line.

And so it'll be interesting to watch whether he can continue this coalition that he's had with Republicans or whether we'll see more factions kind of split off over the course of the next few months.

<Gavin> And Maayan, just to pick up on that too.

In terms of leadership.

We did see a lot of changes during the re-organizational session in December.

That's after lawmakers get elected.

They all come into the statehouse and they pick new seats.

They get new committee chairmen They elect leadership and that included Murrell Smith from Sumter, who's the new speaker who was speaker at the tail end of the last session, but now is elected to his first full term.

Talk to us about what we saw play out there.

It's a little inside baseball, but we got new committee chairman, especially for some of the big committees, like judiciary like Ways and Means, Education.

What does this all mean?

What transpired there and what are some of the undercurrents at play?

<Maayan> Right?

Well, I think leadership shakeup always is important to view in the lens of legislation, right because it can change the kinds of priorities that get moved across the finish line.

Everything started back in March, which feels like eons ago, when Gary Summerall, the former House majority leader who had spent some 30 years in the lower Chamber announced that he would not be seeking reelection.

Soon after his announcement.

Jay Lucas, the former House Speaker announced that not only would he not be finishing his term as speaker but he also would be retiring.

That created a bit of a really substantial domino effect, like you mentioned with Murrell Smith becoming House speaker, and then Davey Hyatt, Republican from Pickens becoming the House majority leader, but into a surprise for a lot of people.

We saw a major shift after the June primary when especially Rita Allison, who had also been in the lower Chamber for some three decades, was beat by a primary newcomer challenger, and she was the longtime chairwoman of the House Education and Public Works Committee, and so during the reorganization session, as you mentioned, we saw a huge reshuffling of leadership.

We have Shannon Erickson, who is now the chair of House Education Committee.

Chris Murphy is no longer the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.

He's on Ways and Means and we have another Beaufort Republican in Weston Newton as the House Judiciary Committee.

So, and we've seen a lot of reshuffling in terms of who is on the committee's themselves.

A lot of new people on the House Ways and Means Committee.

And so those are all important because again, like I mentioned, it changes maybe the perspective of or the shift of which legislation will be priority, but I think, you know, as we all three know, while the committees themselves elect the chairs of their respective committees, right, the speaker does have some say obviously, some of these folks who are now chairing committees, were in conversations, were in talks prior to reorganization, the Speaker of course, wants his priorities wants the Chambers' priorities to move smoothly.

He wants people who are going to be right loyal, no one that's going to act rogue and so I don't think while, while obviously these re-shufflings are pretty major, I don't think the people who are now chairing these committees is that big of a shock.

<Gavin> Jeffrey, anything you'd like to add?

<Jeffrey> One thing to remember too, on the whole committee side of things is during the reorganization session in December, Murrell Smith said the speaker said he was going to consider committee work much more important that he wants bills, taking better care of a committee, studied harder, better written, he wants to do a lot less floor work on committee.

So I mean, it's a little inside baseball stuff.

But, you know, he's putting a lot of emphasis on his committee folks, in fact, they passed a rule, where he gets an extra day before, you know, Murrell Smith assigns the bills to which committee and now he has an extra day that he can look over them and make sure they get sent to the right place.

So there's a big emphasis going to be put on committee work this year.

<Gavin> Yeah, a new captain of that ship.

And then obviously, with new rules in place, we get to see his full force and what he's planning on doing and his priorities for this, this session.

And going forward.

Jeffrey, I want to stick with you and talk about the Freedom Caucus in the House that formed last year with about 13 of the most conservative members.

They're attempting to use their sway to command some power.

They have a litany of issues that they, that they want to see action on.

We did see a lot of debates last year.

We saw a lot of amendments go through and sometimes be used those votes used against even fellow Republicans in primaries.

We also saw a lot going on, and the abortion debate in the special session last year.

What's the state of play here?

How's the leadership handling this?

Like you're talking about, Maayan was talking about maybe going rogue here, situations like that.

But there's also this discussion about not wanting to become Washington, we've heard that prominently in some speeches during the re-organizational session.

<Jeffrey> Ah yes, the great political axiom that the larger the group you have, the bigger majority you have, the harder it is to keep everybody together.

And that's going to be a very interesting storyline for the first several weeks of the House session is what exactly, you know, these newer conservatives that have this group that they call the Freedom Caucus, you know, they're, they think that the Republicans in South Carolina aren't conservative enough, they don't drive issues of social importance, or things like that are enough.

They think that South Carolina still spends too much money on government.

I mean, it's, it's, it's I mean, it there's, there's similarities to Tea Party and some stuff that we've known about for the past decade or so.

There's a little differences too, but essentially, it's this conservative wing.

And, you know, it's going to be a hell of a bit of a headache for...you know, leadership in the House, because, you know, to get anything done, they need these people, and are they going to obstruct things?

Are they going to let things continue?

And I mean, you know, when House Pro tem, you know, the person that fills in for the speaker, when he's not there, Tommy Pope, Representative Tommy Pope, he's gave a speech during the reorganization session where he talked about, we need to be, you know, more together, talking and less, you know, sniping each other on social media, which was, you know, I think to anybody in the House was an obvious message sent to the people in the Freedom Caucus, that, you know, that they don't appreciate, the Freedom Caucus, you know, coming after people on social media that's been a problem for House leadership for several years, is that, you know, they get people organized and upset and angry at the leadership and then there's this - becomes a little bit of a mess.

So, it'll be - that will set the tone for the House this year will be how they interact with each other.

And that's something I'll be watching the first couple of weeks.

<Gavin> Yeah, definitely going to be a big undercurrent, like we're talking about when we look at these bills.

But of course, at this point, now, a lot of bills.

I mean, nothing's on the calendar at this point.

Bills are in committees, They're going to have subcommittee hearings.

It'll be a while till we really see a lot of floor debates, a lot of votes going through, but we'll talk about priorities in a moment.

But we wouldn't be talking a lot about the House changes.

That's because all 124 seats were up for election this past election in November.

And again, we're saying 88 Republicans and 36 Democrats are in charge of the House.

Whereas over in the Senate, there are 46 seats, and there are only 30 Republicans and 16 Democrats over there.

Now they are up for election in 2024.

So that's going to be a factor at play here, when we start talking about legislation, some issues that maybe didn't go anywhere last year or got close last year.

Now, we're about to see where they maybe go either this year at the end of next May when, of course, primaries are around the corner.

So, Maayan, let's just talk about that abortion debate.

That was a huge debate last year It happened in special session, you know, throughout the summer into the fall.

Where does that debate stand now that bill, a really conservative bill passed in the House but just couldn't make it across the finish line in the Senate?

What's the state of play there?

<Maayan> Right, that flurry of legislative action really hit a wall right before session ended.

Obviously, legislators motivated by the US Supreme Court's decision on Dobbs, overruling the Roe v. Wade, landmark case.

So where does that debate go from here?

Honestly, it's a little bit hard to say.

I mean, I think that legislative leaders really want to wait to see what the South Carolina Supreme Court decides, as it's still mulling the state six week heartbeat law, which has been temporarily suspended as the Supreme Court has been deciding whether a portion of it violates the state's constitutional right to privacy.

There were a lot of legislators last year who wanted the General Assembly to just put a stop to talking about abortion until they saw what the justices did.

But we still don't have a decision.

So, still waiting on that, and something else you reminded me of?

I mean, it does come down to math right now.

Right.

So, you mentioned that there are 30 Republicans and 16 Democrats, and while that may seem like enough votes to move, a more restrictive abortion ban across the finish line, I don't know how many times Senate Majority Leader Shane Massey has said this, and I really stopped counting.

But they are just not enough votes in the upper Chamber right now to pass the more restrictive ban.

As you mentioned, the Senate was not up for reelection in 2022.

This is the beginning of a two year session.

So 2023, those numbers are still going to be the same.

2024, those numbers are still going to be the same.

But 2024 adds a new dynamic, as you mentioned.

The Senate is up for reelection, you'll have legislators really pushing legislation that they hope can get them across the primary and into the general primaries, obviously, as you both know, is really where some of the major elections do occur.

And also kind of hanging over the state will be the 2024 Republican presidential race.

And I'm trying to remember back to 2020, when we saw a lot of candidates running for president pushing their own kind of legislation through members of the General Assembly to get across and so it's likely we'll see the same thing.

I think abortion is going to be among those top issues, especially in 2024.

<Gavin> So much to look forward to, and Jeffrey, I want to talk about the budget because lawmakers have an additional, what 3.5 billion this year to budget with on top of, you know, already healthy revenue.

So not a bad spot to be in considering the economic conditions right now, and some concerns about potential recessions.

We're taping this on Thursday morning.

The governor is set to reveal his budget on Friday.

That's his budget proposal, but walk us through this process, and what could be some big ticket items maybe we can see from the governor, and just you know, the role his budget plays in this entire process.

<Jeffrey> Yeah, it's unprecedented how much money South Carolina has to spend this year and over the past year.

You know, I think you're going to see a lot of the similar things that we saw to last year.

I mean, obviously, there's going to be tax cut discussions, there's going to be rebate discussions.

Those will probably rise to the top, there will be a lot of talk about infrastructure spending.

I mean, that seems to be something that everybody got their own little jolt out of.

And I mean, you know, that was, you know, part of the 2022 gubernatorial campaign was the Republican incumbent governor saying I spent a bunch of money on roads and a lot of other things, and people were very happy about it by the results, you know, seem to indicate everybody was cool with that.

And I mean, so that's going to be a big deal.

I mean, I think you're going to see talks about raising salaries for teachers, salaries for state employees.

There's going to be a whole host of other things.

I mean, there's some grumbling about legislative pay.

And I mean, certainly makes it easier if you got this big pot of money sitting around to raise the pay of legislators too.

I mean, the thing about the budget process that may be particularly interesting is it doesn't really change much in the House.

Murrell Smith has run things for a long time.

But this is just the second year of Senate Finance Committee Chairman Harvey Peeler running the budget stuff in the Senate, and there was a lot of people.

Well I won't say a lot.

There was a decent number of lawmakers, all things considered unhappy with Peeler and the way he did things and he did things differently than Hugh Leatherman did for, you know, decades.

And you know, that came up in the whole interstate 73 debate over getting money for that at the end of the session, which money didn't end up being allocated.

And so that may be an interesting point to watch is how the Senate deals with his budget matters.

And how Harvey Peeler continues to put his imprint on things and how he runs things differently than they've been done for the past 20 years here.

<Gavin> Yeah, a lot of that infrastructure money was federal money from the American Rescue Plan Act, which we still have money left over from to budget with.

We still have money from the Savannah River site.

I don't think that ever got fully through yet.

That settlement money, and then, of course, we're talking about infrastructure, $6 billion from that bipartisan infrastructure law that was signed into law last year.

So a lot of money flowing around, but definitely probably a good chance that we'll see rebates or tax cuts again, as that tax code continues to be phased in.

<Jeffrey> No doubt.

I mean, and I mean, if you are, if you have any kind of need, if you're a state agency, then now's your time to put it up.

And in some ways, you have to wonder if you don't get it, exactly what's going on?

But I mean, yeah, I think, tax rebates and tax cuts, they will, I mean, they passed nearly unanimously last year.

And I mean, nothing ever of that, sort passes like that.

So I mean, you know, everybody's going to want to do that.

Because I mean, why not?

It's an easy win.

<Gavin> And the governor rolls out this proposal on Friday.

It's really his ideas, you know, what he's been getting from state agencies and their requests, and then he kind of formed his own, but we do see it has a lot of influence too, more so than it has, in his predecessors in terms of getting things aligned when it comes to priorities.

with House budget writers and Senate Budget writers.

I mean, a lot of his priorities have been funded in the past, which is something we haven't seen really in a while.

<Jeffrey> Well, he collaborates with the House and Senate leadership on these things.

And I mean, so, you know, there are his ideas, but they certainly - he knows how this House and Senate feels about them before, you know, the governor releases them.

So, I mean, you know, and unlike the governor's you know, Governor Sanford, Governor Haley who had their own ideas and do their own things.

So, you know, in the end, you have to pay a lot more attention to the budget proposal by the governor now, because it's most of those things come through, maybe not in the amounts he wants or in the way he wants it, but I mean, it's certainly, it certainly lays out the road that we're going to travel over the three or four month budget process.

<Gavin> Yeah.

And really a testament to that when he had in November there.

Maayan, a big issue that received hours of testimony, last session, were at the House Education Committee was dealing with Critical Race Theory, that bill made it through the House, it got stalled in the Senate at the end there, but a budget proviso enforced the crux of it.

Tell us about that.

And if you think there's a greater chance of seeing that, that becoming actual law instead of just temporary law, especially in the Senate, as they begin, like we've been talking about, they're gearing up for re-election in 2024.

<Maayan> Right.

So the Critical Race Theory, related legislation, as you mentioned, took hours and hours of a testimony and hearing time, while then the education Chairwoman Rita Allison was running that committee, obviously the biggest issue was the fact that legislators really couldn't agree on what the definition of Critical Race Theory was.

But they pushed out a bill nevertheless, and like you said, it basically stalled in the Senate.

Senate Education Committee, Chairman, Greg Hembree, really wasn't all too kind of willing at that time.

If I'm remembering correctly, it was kind of late too, to really get that through committee, given how many hearings, how many hours of testimony it took in the House.

But moving forward to this year, obviously, this is a new session.

So all the bills from last year died, that did not get fully passed.

That bill is still going to have to go through all the legislative hearings, may not go through the same hours of hearings, but same process.

We've already seen a willingness from Shannon Erickson, the new education chair in the House, to move that bill along and take off what Rita Allison did the work that she and her staff did on that bill.

So it is likely we'll see something similar come out of the House and I believe Critical Race Theory legislation is among the priorities among the South Carolina House Republican caucus, But where it stands in the Senate is really unclear.

When I've talked to legislative leaders over the last few days as we're preparing for session.

Critical Race Theory has just not been one of the top issues that has come up.

What I've heard a lot of is infrastructure, is money for infrastructure.

It's sort of those kind of like basic government services and some other hang on legislation that has just failed to pass and taken years and years and years of success certificate of any legislation, for example.

So, I still think it's really unclear whether critical race theory legislation has a chance of passing in the Senate again, certainly, I think 2023, that I don't know if there'll be much of a focus of it in the Senate.

But 2024, as we talked about is a bit of a game changer.

That's usually when we see a lot of that kind of more social, kind of controversial legislation get really pushed because it's right at the top of voters minds.

It's right before re-election.

<Gavin> Jeffrey to continue with education.

We've saw some action on Parsons School Board legislation, education scholarship accounts, which some people just call a voucher program.

And then other bills are expected to be front and center.

Like Maayan's been talking about, we have a new House education committee chairwoman with Shannon Erickson.

And we also have a new state superintendent of education Ellen Weaver.

It seems like they're ideologically on the same page, even more so than Weaver's predecessor, Molly Spearman.

Talk to us about the state of play there when it comes to education legislation now, with these changes.

<Jeffrey> You know, I think you can prepare for big changes in Education in South Carolina a lot of stuff that conservatives have been wanting for a long time, like you said, the savings accounts, deal with vouchers, however you want to put it, the idea of as much school choice as we can possibly have things like that are coming.

I mean, Ellen Weaver, I don't know if there's anybody that's been more supported by the establishment in South Carolina, the Republican establishment in the last 20 years, than Ellen Weaver, I mean, you know, in the primary, they pushed her from second to a win.

I mean, every single person in the leadership position in South Carolina just says, all sorts of good things about her.

So there may be this synergy between these plans that, you know, the leadership in South Carolina have had in the superintendent's office that just, you know, in Molly Spearman's case, she worked, but she had a different outlook on things.

So you know, it was, it'll be very interesting to see, I do think you're going to see a lot of education changes.

<Gavin> Maayan, we know that speaker, Murrell Smith has some big priorities, too.

We're talking a lot about improving economic development competitiveness, which is kind of interesting to talk about, especially after such a banner year in 2022, with about $10 billion in capital investment 13,000 new jobs attracted to the state, That's a big priority of him to make us more competitive, like the governor continues to say.

But the speaker is also interested in addressing fentanyl deaths, which have been increasing and reforming the bond system.

So it seems like a good way to focus on these issues instead of some of these, you know, more social issues that maybe will wait till 2024, but if he's backing such big issues, it's pretty safe to say that these are going to go forward.

<Maayan> Yeah, I think so and some of these priorities that the speaker has talked to us about and that the House Republican caucus has also said that they want to push in over the next year, our issues, our priorities that legislative leaders in the Senate want to do, also.

We haven't always seen the House and the Senate kind of agree on everything.

But fentanyl related legislation, curbing that really kind of embracing, as you mentioned, all of this investment that's come in over the last year, electric vehicles, electric batteries, we saw so many announcements, and will see more announcements, I'm sure on that, clearly, the state wants to be at the forefront of that wave, and so I do think we're going to see some collaboration on these big issues.

There's already bills, especially dealing with fentanyl, and dealing with the criminal justice system that seem to have some more motivation than usual to move forward.

But, you know, again, I think this is where it's still remains to be seen how Speaker Smith is going to be able to kind of control his Chamber, while he as I mentioned before, does have a great wave of respect across the board.

So far, we haven't seen a whole lot of splintering off of the issues that he wants to push.

You know, we're still, we're before session, and you know, everything can change once we get into session, especially, you know, depending on what's happening nationally, if that affects what's going on statewide, etc.

We don't know what will happen even during session, whether there'll be a new issue that now is at the forefront of priorities.

But for now, I mean, these big top heavy issues seem to have more movement than usual because both Chambers agree that there are priorities going forward.

<Gavin> Excuse me, yeah, especially when you have a lot of money and momentum going there too.

Jeffrey, you have less than five minutes left, But I really want to talk about medical marijuana.

That was a big bill we saw pushed by Beaufort Republicans Senator Tom Davis, who's been pushing it for years and finally got it out of the Senate last year, but died in the House on a technicality.

That raised a lot of eyebrows a lot of ire too.

It's expected to be back through the Senate early again this session.

What do we see it happening?

Where do you see that going in the House, especially when you consider the factors at play when it comes to a lot of holdovers from the abortion debate, and then the medical marijuana debate?

a lot of factors at play there behind the scenes.

<Jeffrey> Medical marijuana is one of the more interesting issues because it comes down to each individual lawmakers decision.

I mean, it's not something where there's a coalition that forms or you know, like all Republicans supported or against it, or whatever.

So, you know, that makes it interesting and hard to predict kind of issue.

You know, as you mentioned, the bill died last year on a technicality in the House and you can trust that Tom Davis is going to make sure that technicality gets covered and we won't see that problem again.

You know, so that being said, there, if you were an opponent of medical marijuana, you're going to have to find a different tactic.

Now, with 27 new members of the House, maybe there's something there that, if you're against medical, medical marijuana, you can, you know, get enough opposition to prevent it from happening, but certainly the momentum of it seems to indicate that this is probably going to have a pretty good shot at passing this year.

The dynamic with abortion could be an interesting one.

I mean, some of the, you know, one of the biggest proponents of abortion, you know, wrote restrictions in the South Carolina House, John McCravy got into a little spat over medical marijuana with Tom Davis and they've been at each other a little bit over this issue for a while.

So we'll see if that spills over.

I mean, but then again, that being said, there are some very ardent people against abortion in the South Carolina House that are also okay with medical marijuana.

So it's just a very interesting issue that I guess it almost comes down to each lawmakers individual conscience on it.

<Gavin> We have less than two minutes left.

So I want to do these questions quickly, Maayan.

I just want to ask you about the governor's inauguration next week.

He is again, the state is flushed with cash.

We heard Jeffrey talking about his relationship with the lawmakers and the legislature.

Do you expect this era of relative calm between the two branches to continue going forward?

And what do we expect to hear in his speech next week?

<Maayan> Yeah, I do.

I think the Governor has had a really good relationship, especially with the House.

I don't see that changing at all under Speaker Smith.

I'm sure in his inauguration, we're going to hear about collaboration, communication, we're going to hear about all the big capital investment that was announced last year.

We're going to hear about education.

We're going to hear about how the state never closed during COVID, and that has helped, what helped kind of spur this economic sort of momentum that the state has continued over the last several months.

And as you both mentioned before, the governor will lay out his budget proposal this week, which will be a huge part of what he also talks about at his inauguration day, and so I'm sure that those priorities we'll see come up in the House as well.

<Gavin> A lot to watch and that's why we're talking to Maayan Schechter, the State's politics editor at the State newspaper and Jeffrey Collins with the AP.

We'll be checking in throughout the session.

Thanks, guys.

<Maayan> Thanks so much.

<Jeffrey> Thanks, Gavin.

Always good to talk to you.

<Gavin> For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina ♪