(gentle music) (gentle music) - Soon the Nebraska legislature will convene for the 2024 session.

With a more divisive tone spilling into the previous session, the upcoming year will be a true test of the nation's only non-partisan legislature.

We discuss that tonight on "Speaking of Nebraska."

("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music) ("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music) ("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music) Thanks for joining us on "Speaking of Nebraska."

I'm Nebraska Public Media News Director, Jay Omar.

The 2023 legislative session saw contentious debate in a months long filibuster.

Tones grew sharper among senators as the sessions progressed and protestors filled the rotunda on more than one occassion.

Nebraska's nonpartisan structure is unique in the nation, but our changes on the horizon at the capitol?

But, before we look forward, Nebraska Public Media news reporter, Jolie Peele, looks back on what happened and didn't happen in this year's 60 day session.

- [Speaker] Voting no, Senator Murman.

Voting no, Senator Raybould.

- [Jolie] Controversial bills.

- LB574 is a bill.

- [Jolie] Tough conversations.

- The title of the bill is "Let Them Grow."

- [Jolie] Filibusters.

- I have never been afraid of another Nebraskan, especially given all.

- [Jolie] All things that Nebraska Senators deal with every legislative session.

But, 2023 brought something the state hadn't seen before.

An unprecedented flow of protests.

- [Protesters] Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame!

- Debates about procedure.

- The courts in Nebraska have been very broad in their approach to the single subject rule when it comes to legislation passed by the legislature.

- [Jolie] And arguably the most divisive session in the Unicameral history.

- I have talked to multiple people in that room who do not believe that there was any negotiation in good faith, and I can tell you from looking at the amendment that is before us today, it is not a compromise.

- [Jolie] By the time session ended, some bills had passed, including the highly debated legislation, combining abortion restrictions, and limits on gender affirming care for minors.

Some senators claimed the bill was unconstitutional, -which led to a lawsuit.

-(protesters chant) A judge dismissed the lawsuit in August saying the bill did not violate the Nebraska Constitution's requirement that bills cover only a single subject.

Because both proposals covered healthcare, that ruling is currently being appealed.

(protesters chanting) - You literally have to cheat at every moment of this debate.

In every possible way, you are cheating, (protesters chanting) and it looks bad.

It looks really, really bad.

(protesters chanting) - [Jolie] The contentious session also saw the passing of a law, allowing concealed carry of a firearm without a permit, and a bill allowing tax credit funded scholarships to private and religious schools.

But, one of the most talked about subjects was a months-long filibuster by Senator Machaela Cavanaugh, a tactic she and other allies say they plan to continue next year.

The dust has settled, for now, and as the calendar moves closer to January, the 2024 session is shaping up to be a test for the Nebraska legislature.

I'm Jolie Peele, Nebraska Public Media News.

("Speaking of Nebraska," theme music) - Joining us now are four Nebraska State Senators, Senator Carol Blood, who represents District 3 in Bellevue and Papillion, Senator Danielle Conrad from District 46 in Lincoln, Senator Jana Hughes from District 24, around Seward, And Senator Mike Jacobson, who represents District 42. centered in North Platte.

Thank you all so much for joining me today.

I would like to discuss the Nebraska legislature, past, present, and future.

Senator Conrad, we'll start with you.

The 2023 session seemed a little bit more divisive than normal.

Do you agree with this?

And if so, what factors do you think might have played a role in that?

- Sure, well thank you so much Jay for having us on the program today.

It's great to see this program back, and we're all really honored to be here.

As the member with the second most seniority in the body, I have a little bit of history to reflect upon when answering this question, but I think, unfortunately, we really hit a low watermark when it came to the tenor and tone of our politics in the Nebraska legislature in 2023.

That being said, I'm hopeful we have nowhere to go but up, together.

And, I think leaders like the ones you've assembled here today, will help us do that.

Nebraskans have a precious, precious gift, in our unique Unicameral legislature, that we run and serve in a non-partisan way.

And, that institution has served our citizenry so well for decades and has been a generational point of pride, rightly, because it helps us to keep out divisive, toxic, partisan shenanigans from our politics, focus on people, focus on policy, and get the work done for Nebraskans.

So, that institution has been tested, due to things like voter suppression, and term limits, and gerrymandering.

These things have weakened the independence and strength of the institution.

That being said, we still have a better system than any of our sister states, and the federal government, and I'm confident that leaders, like the ones assembled here today, and our colleagues who aren't with us, can figure out how to right this ship and get back to our proud non-partisan spirit.

- And, thank you.

And, we will circle back to the current structure of the Unicameral in a little bit.

So, we will have more discussion on that.

Senator Jacobson, most Nebraskans only see what kind of happens on the surface level at the Nebraska legislature.

Behind the scenes, is there more compromise happening than might meet the eye?

- I don't think there's any question that there is.

I can tell you that I look at this year in particular, when you look at all of the things that were happening, and some would argue not happening, on the floor, there was a tremendous amount happening behind the scenes.

You know, I think that's where the relationship building goes on.

I can tell you that I liked, I kind of pride myself, and I think I've got a a good personal relationship with every Democrat in the body, even though I'm a registered Republican.

And, I would tell you that I made it a point when I first came down here the year before, to really build a personal relationship with all state senators.

I had the privilege of sitting next to Speaker Hilgers in the the 30 days that I served in the legislature in the 107th legislature.

And, I remember one day when he told me, he said, "you know, Mike," he says, "when there's days when you get frustrated," he said, "lean back in your chair, look up at the ceiling, look around this place, and say, "This is an amazing place.

We have an incredible responsibility."

People have entrusted us to be here to represent their views, don't ever forget that."

And, I haven't.

-Great.

-Great.

- Senator Hughes, we'll turn to you.

-[Hughes] All right.

- This is your first term -in the Nebraska legislature.

-Yes, it was.

- Can you talk us through a little bit about what your expectations were coming in, and how the session played out compared to those expectations?

- Right.

So, coming in, I didn't have specific expectations.

I've never, you know, a lot of people have come in, have, you know, maybe worked as a page, or you know, helped.

Maybe they were a staff member at one point, and, or had family members do it.

And, I was new to the whole process, if you will.

So, I guess I didn't have a lot of expectations, I had, I knew that prior senators, in fact Senator Mark Kolterman, who I replaced, enjoyed it, and really enjoyed the comradery, and meeting the other senators, and other staff.

Just all the people that you meet, and the good things you do, and and developing the relationships within your own district, too, 'cause it starts there with your campaign, and meeting all those guys.

So, I don't know if I had specific expectations.

I know I believe at one point I called it a dumpster fire, what was going on.

So, it was not what I would have chosen it to be, I guess, I hope that we have all learned from it.

I know I, and I probably have learned some bad habits from it, because I haven't gone through the real deal.

One of the things at the end, that I just, I really don't like is that we had these huge package bills.

They felt like we almost became a Washington DC, I am really looking forward to one bill, one vote, that we can just vote on the merits of that bill.

So, I hope we can get back to that.

I think, ultimately, I mean, we ended up getting a lot done and through.

I don't know that there are things that got through, maybe, that I'm not as happy with, but I hope we can get back to it.

And I know, you know, Nebraskans are, I've always said this on the campaign trail and everything, Nebraska's a place where neighbors help neighbors, and I call it the two degree of separation.

If you start talking to somebody in Nebraska, within two people, there's some connection.

And, I don't care where you're at in the state of Nebraska, that's how it is.

And so, we can revive that and get back to, and have discourse, and maybe we're not gonna agree, but we can be civil about not, you know, we can agree to disagree, and be civil to each other, and we need to get that back because that, kids watching this or anything, we are adults, and we need to be able to handle it professionally, kindly, civilly.

And, we were raised here and I think we can get that back.

So, that's what we're, what we're gonna work on this next semester, or, I called it the semester!

(all laugh) The next session.

I keep doing that.

I feel like I'm in school again.

- It's that time of year, yes!

(laughs) - I'm learning so much.

I do feel like I'm back in school.

So, I keep calling 'em semesters.

- Thank you very much.

And, Senator Blood, similar question, kind of, opposite side of the coin.

You were first elected in 2016.

- You're on the back end and I'm on the front end.

(laughs) -Can you, -Good thing it's not a horse.

-(all laugh) -Can you talk a little bit about what changes you've noticed since you were first elected in 2016.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So, I can tell you the reason I got into the legislature is because I love policy.

And, you've heard me say it before, policy makes me giddy.

And, my favorite part of being a senator prior to this year, was debate.

Because of all that's happened, because of this brutal session, a lot of the freshmen did not get to experience the real spirit of debate.

People weren't turning around and listening to people, which had always been done in the past.

And so, they were hunched over on their computers knowing how they were already going to vote.

We really have missed out on the true communication that we have on the floor that often changes.

And, I can give you example after example over the last two decades, where really big things got done and they got done 'cause we worked together on the floor, and we debated, and we shared facts, science, data.

Now, we're to a point where people are being handed information, and reading it verbatim, and sometimes it's wrong information, which makes us look ridiculous as a body.

So, for me, having been there for as long as I have been, is I miss the true spirit of working together and listening to each other.

And, frankly, I'm gonna kind of change the conversation here a bit.

We have members now that feel emboldened to be rude to you, face to face, off the mic, which I have never seen before.

And, mostly it's because they haven't gotten their way on something, or they don't agree with you on something.

People can disagree with me as much as they want, but that does not give them permission to be rude.

And so, for me it's been very unfortunate and heartbreaking that we have the ability to rise up, and we have the ability to go forward.

But, we have had a brutal year, and there are individuals who need to get on the same train we're on, and move things forward and put their egos, and leave 'em at the door.

- So, that will lead us into, kind of, next round of questioning, which is a little bit more diving into some of the things that you all touched on.

I'll start with you Senator Conrad, but please feel free to jump in if you have something to add.

Polarization seems to be creeping in at all levels of government.

What would you say to a Nebraskan right now who's concerned that, you know, some of the things that Senator Blood maybe hinted at are hindering the ability of the Unicameral to function properly?

- Sure.

Well, and I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of the comments that my colleagues brought forward here today.

And, that's actually one of the biggest reasons why I jumped back into political life after serving for eight years, and then being term limited, and then wanting to go back.

I was deeply concerned about polarization and divisiveness in our politics, and I saw it coming to Nebraska, and I knew that I had to try and do more with my unique experience to try and make a positive difference.

And, I think my colleagues are a hundred percent right.

We wouldn't tolerate these kinds of shenanigans, and this type of bad behavior in our homes, in our businesses, or in our schools.

And, we shouldn't tolerate it in the upper echelons of power.

It's beneath the dignity of those institutions, and it's not what Nebraskans want, or sent us there to do.

What I think is driving that is a lot of different things.

Some of these tools of oppression that impact our democracy overall.

Some of it's dooms scrolling, and kind of, manipulation that we see on our social media feeds.

And, I think just the fact that it takes a long time to get up to speed on the issues, and the process, and the rules, and build relationships, all of those pieces are requisite to formulating good public policy.

And so, when we have senators with less experience, it just really hinders our ability to go deep on the policy and to have those trusting relationships with each other.

So, that being said, we again take an oath to our office, to run and serve in a nonpartisan way.

And, it's a very deliberate choice by those who have a vote in the floor of the legislature to decide whether or not to honor that, when they cast their vote on rules that diminish our institution, when they cast their vote for elected leaders and chairs that don't have the experience and passion that other people running for those offices have, when they set an agenda that focuses on manufactured, divisive political issues, instead of common sense, common ground issues that bring Nebraska together.

These are deliberate choices, and they're a leadership failure.

That is exactly how we got to where we got in 2023.

That's the bad news.

The good news is there's always hope for a better tomorrow.

There's always a hope to return to our roots.

There's always a hope to honor our oath of office and the will of the people.

I'm confident that we can do that together.

But, it's going to take choosing a different path, choosing a path that allows for regular debate, normalized debate, robust debate, where we can disagree and should disagree.

It'd be awfully boring if we all thought the same thing.

But, we need to focus on the issues.

Everybody agrees workforce is our number one issue in Nebraska.

Let's talk about the solutions attendant there too.

Childcare, education, job training, infrastructure, those are issues that we should be debating and we're not gonna have to pull out all the stops in a rules fight to take up good solutions to childcare.

So that, I think along with the relationship building, going deep on the policy, and setting agenda that's right for Nebraska is how we come out of this together.

- But, Senator Conrad, don't you also believe that a lot of this also starts with the ballots, and who gets elected, and how they get elected?

Nebraska in our body right now, they've refused to get rid of dark money in Nebraska.

We know that there are people that have had their way bought into office, therefore taking away the vote of Nebraskans.

And, if we continue on that path, no matter how hard we work, no matter how positive we are, we're gonna keep getting people in there that've gotten there differently than many of us that will have a different view.

- And, I will jump in and give Senator Jacobson and Senator Hughes an opportunity.

- Let me just maybe redirect a little bit in terms of some of the positive things that have occurred.

I look at the way the Unicameral is structured, and I agree with Senator Conrad.

I think it's a very unique, it was a unique experience that's worked, and I believe it does work, and it works from the standpoint you've got 49 of us, every bill that gets introduced gets a hearing.

That doesn't happen at the federal level.

When you look at the fact that we're dealing with one house, and we're going through three readings, we do have an opportunity to air a lot of that information.

I would tell you that it was unfortunate that we had the filibusters that we did.

I think that really raised the frustrations, and caused a division within the body because of that.

But, I can tell you that that last week in the legislature was amazing.

I mean, I think we'd all agree that that last week we got the very things that we've talked about.

We got genuine debate on bills.

People were doing the things they did the prior year when I was there, in the back in that session.

I think that we ended the legislature on a high note.

I agree with Senator Hughes.

We all learned a lot.

I think we're all gonna come in with a different attitude and a different perspective, I think, in 20, in this next year, in 2024, I also want to say that Speaker Arch is a very principled individual, and he took a lot of attacks, but I'm telling you what, he was the right guy to lead the legislature this year.

And, in the end we got a lot done.

Maybe not the way we wanted to get it done, but we did get a lot accomplished.

We got about roughly 300 bills passed, inside of 56 bills, which is not a good way to do it.

- [Senator] That's right.

- But, but we make, we have massive tax cuts.

We reduced some regulation.

We brought an unprecedented money amount of money into public education.

I think we accomplished a lot this year, in spite of what went on, and I think we proved that the system can work.

And, I think I would also agree that with 17 freshmen, we all learned baptism-by-fire this year.

And, I think that in itself will help us in this next legislative session.

- Senator Hughes, we are running short on time, but I wanted to give you an opportunity.

-Sure.

(laughs) -If you have a chance to voice it.

- So, yeah, just real quick.

I will, I'm a little bit glass-half-full type person, and I also feel that we ended much better.

In fact, I have people come in like, "this is what it's like, this is what, this is why we do this, this is what it's like."

And so, I think we can capitalize that and keep it going.

Off session, I've gone to some conferences and things like that, and from talking with other legislators from states around us, they call us the unicorn.

The Unicameral is a unicorn, right?

We're the only one in the United States, and it has a lot of merit.

There's 49 senators that represent our entire state population.

We have a lot of power.

I am, I'm an independent broker.

I can bring bills.

I don't have to ask permission from some speaker or whatever to bring my bill.

I can do that.

And, that's a positive thing.

And so, we've gotta capitalize on our, the positive things about it, and get back there, because it has worked for many years, and I know we can stick with it, and get back to where it needs to be, so.

-[Jay] Excellent.

-Yeah.

- Thank you all so much for being here.

I really do appreciate it, and I appreciate the thoughtful discussion.

(upbeat music) The Nebraska Legislature has a long history since the Unicameral was established nearly a century ago.

While much has changes a lot has stayed the same.

Nebraska Public Media News talked with an expert on Nebraska state house and discussed whether a non-partisan system has served the state well and why some feel change is necessary.

Nebraska Public Media news reporter, Jolie Peele, has the story.

- [Jolie] Some say to predict the future, you need to look in the past.

And, according to Charlene Berens, professor and author of two books on the Unicameral.

"The 86 Year History of the Unicameral," shows more bright days could be ahead.

- Because we have just the one house, and all the legislation is done in that space, we have a more efficient approach to the whole process.

I mean, look, for example, we seldom have a special session called because something didn't get done that has to get done.

We seem to get things done pretty well.

[Jolie] The idea of the single house system came about in the 1930s, spearheaded by then-Nebraska US Senator, George Norris, a petition drive put the idea in front of voters.

And, in 1937, the first Unicameral session was held.

- Norris himself said he wouldn't recommend it for the Congress.

He believed that the nation was too large and too diverse for that.

But in a state, particularly a relatively small state like ours, he thought it would work really well.

And, I think it has.

- [Jolie] "Putting all senators on equal ground, giving a stronger voice to the people of Nebraska, and increasing efficiency are all benefits of the Unicameral," Berens says.

But, no system is without its cracks, some of which have started to show the last few sessions.

When asked what has shifted most in Nebraska State House in the past few decades, Berens said she's seen a specific change.

- [Berens] I think one of the big things is that we are seeing the effects of term limits really come home to roost.

Nebraskans passed term limits for their legislators in 2000.

The first led senators were term limited out in 2006.

And, since then, nobody has served more than two terms.

- [Jolie] "A lack of institutional knowledge and mentorship contributed to challenges during the 2023 session," Berens says.

However, not everyone thinks the legislature is moving in the wrong direction.

A move to a partisan approach was proposed and denied last session.

But, it is the official platform of the Nebraska Republican Party.

According to the NEGOP website, quote, "The Nebraska Republican Party believes in a partisan legislature as an efficient and accountable branch of government."

Senator Steve Erdman, who introduced a proposal for a partisan two house legislature, says the current system isn't working.

And, similar states who used a partisan two house system have better tax systems and policy outcomes.

During the 2023 session, Erdman said, quote, "I believe, as with all things we do in the legislature, once in a while, you need to take a review of what you've accomplished, and see if it is doing what you expected it to do."

Berens sees it differently saying, "senators should use the nonpartisan one house system that has made Nebraska unique for 86 years."

- [Berens] Use your own knowledge, your own research, the things that your staff helps you learn, the things you hear from lobbyists, use all that, and your own conscience and make your decisions that way, not based on what the national, or even the state parties are saying.

If that can happen, and I think it can, I hope it can, then we may pull back from this precipice of partisanship.

- [Jolie] I'm Jolie Peele, Nebraska Public Media News.

("Speaking of Nebraska," theme music) - Welcome back to "Speaking of Nebraska."

I'm joined today by Nebraska Public Media reporter, Fred Knapp.

Thanks so much for joining us, Fred.

And, we're gonna talk about the legislature a little bit, something that you've been covering for over three decades, but 2023 was a little different.

From your perspective, what was different about this session?

- I think that what struck me was the level of vitriol that the senators engaged in, the personal nature of it, and the fact that it started so early in the session.

- [Jay] What do you mean by started so early?

The divisiveness, the, -[Knapp] Yes.

-That started so early?

- As soon as the transgender health limitations on abortion got out of committee, that triggered a filibuster that lasted, essentially, the rest of the session.

- And, that leads right into my next question.

We did see a lengthy filibuster by Machaela Cavanaugh.

From your perspective, how did that impact the flow of the session?

- It was, it cut it off immediately.

It cut off the flow, and then it was sort of like a python, every once in a while loosening, and things would get through, and then it would tighten up again.

But, what it did was it inspired the people who wanted to get their legislation passed, to lump them all together in these Christmas tree bills.

So, one bill, which could be filibustered for eight hours at the first stage of debate, would contain perhaps 20 or 30 different bills.

- In the previous segment, Charlene Berens discussed that term limits are changing the dynamics of the legislature.

You have covered the ledge of both before and after term limits were put in place.

Do you share that belief that it's changing the way things are running?

- I do think so.

If you're only allowed eight years, there's pressure to make a splash early and get what you want done, rather than building long-term relationships.

And, another thing that's a dynamic is that as things have become increasingly partisan, that has increased the divisiveness.

Now, some people think that's a good thing, because to the extent that you're more partisan, you're more accountable.

And, they would argue that if you had party labels when people ran on the ballot, and you could see what party they belong to, that would give voters more information about what their likely positions are going to be.

Contrast that with George Norris's original idea, which was that people ought to be elected on their merits, regardless of their party, and the best would rise to the top.

- It's a tough question, but as you look ahead to covering 2024, do you expect much of the same, or maybe a return a little bit to how it was previously?

- Well, I know Speaker Arch is trying to get people to get together, and improve the personal relationships.

But, when you look at one of the bills that's going to be introduced, or has already been introduced, the Sports and Spaces Bill, which would limit locker rooms and sports teams to the biological sex of people assigned at birth, that seems like it a presages a repeat of the kind of divisiveness that we saw this last session.

- Fred, I really appreciate your time, and thanks for being here, and talking about the legislature with me.

("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music) - That's all for this week on "Speaking of Nebraska."

Thank you to Senators Conrad, Jacobson, Hughes, and Blood for the thoughtful discussion on the future of the Nebraska legislature.

Also, thank you to Fred Knapp, producer Jolie Peele, videographer Sam Broderson, and everyone behind the scenes who made the show possible.

Next week we will dive into the topic of medical marijuana, and the latest petition drive to get it on the 2024 ballot.

I'm Nebraska Public Media News Director, Jay Omar.

Have a great night.

("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music) ("Speaking of Nebraska" theme music)