-Welcome back into the kitchen.

We're celebrating America's 250th birthday.

-My kind of cooking.

-I think you did it right.

-This is a winner-winner.

-Oh.

[ Applause ] -Hi.

I'm Chris Fennimore.

-And I'm Nancy Polinsky.

-And welcome back into the kitchen.

You know, we're coming up on a fabulous anniversary for the United States, for all of us.

-Yes.

-And that is the 4th of July.

Now, we always celebrate the 4th of July.

But this year -- -This year.

-...is a big birthday.

It's 250 years of celebrating this new country.

-Oh my gosh.

My daddy was a history teacher.

He would have absolutely loved this.

For the bicentennial, I was in Boston on the Esplanade with Arthur Fiedler.

I don't know where I'm going to be for this one, but it's going to be huge.

-Well... most of the people are going to be around some kind of picnic or a barbecue.

And so we have gathered together a book of...ooh, wow, well over 150 recipes for picnics and barbecues.

So things that you can cook on the barbecue or you can bring to a picnic.

There's everything from appetizers and salads and roasting meats, marinating things, and there's desserts and salads.

-That's not to say you can't just do hamburgers and hot dogs if you want, but... -But you could add some of these to those just hamburgers and hot dogs.

-Yeah.

-So, um, that's what we're going to do.

We're going to be showing you how we cook some of those recipes right now.

And, uh, so, Nancy, I'm going to bring in, uh -- -One of our favorite people.

-...one of our favorite guests here.

-Yeah.

We love -- love Joseph.

-Good morning.

-My son Joseph.

-Hello.

-And Nancy... [ Stammers ] -I'll see you later.

-Okay.

-Okay.

-Alright, Joe, good to see you.

-Good morning.

-[ Chuckles ] Joe, uh, we -- [stammers] you cooked a lot of 4th of July and just any kind of picnic and barbecue things, but one of the things that I love is the ability to barbecue on skewers, because people love that individual thing that's all theirs, and they just get to chew on it.

-They get all the variety on one stick.

-Yeah.

Okay.

-It's perfect.

-So we're going to put together a couple of sticks.

I'm going to put some heat on this thing.

Oh.

Is that -- Oh.

Am I doing it?

Ah.

There it goes.

-Okay.

-Alright.

And I have, of course, we're going to have some that are precooked.

And I want to put them on now so we can, uh, eat them.

So we're going to start with, um, something that I have never actually done before and that is, uh, swordfish.

-Swordfish.

Something I've never made for myself, but I've had before and seems like it'd go great on a skewer because it's got a nice, thick, meaty texture.

-Yeah.

So we've been marinating this.

Um, and if you tell them about the marinade for that.

-Yes.

So we've got here for this marinade, we've got some lemon juice, we've got some dill leaves that we're going to mince, and we've got a little bit of canola oil.

-Okay.

-So I'm gonna... -If you would -- -...put that together.

-Right.

We're going to do a lot of the magic of television during this, uh, program, because a lot of things need, uh, to sit for an hour or two or whatever it is.

Okay.

Alright, that's enough of that.

Now, um... -And the dill leaves.

I'm going to get just a couple of sprigs here.

-Just put some sprigs in there.

I think that'll flavor it.

-Oh, sure, just... -Because it's going to sit for about an hour or so because it's fish.

Alright.

And what are the other ingredients?

-Um, the lemon juice and canola oil I've already put in here.

-That's it?

So it's just, like, dill flavored.

Alright.

-And should I sprinkle a little salt in there, too?

-Yeah.

I would.

-Alright.

-We're going to put this aside, and I'm going to cut you some veggies to put on there.

This is a zucchini that I'm going to cut into little cubes.

Cut another one.

-And would you... You know, we're doing the magic of television here.

But would you marinate the veggies in the same marinade as the meat that they're going to cook with?

-Oh, sure.

Yeah.

-Okay.

Well, I'll put them in the same bag then.

-Okay.

Now I'm going to chop up an onion to get us some onion pieces to go in between... those, um...when you're skewering them up.

-I love kebabs for an event because all of this work that we're having to do now of the chopping, the marinade, you can do that the day ahead.

-Yeah.

-And then day of, you're not running around trying to cook so much, you can just focus on the skewering and entertaining folks.

-Yeah.

I have a red pepper here.

And this is completely up to you if you want to use red peppers, green peppers, whatever you want to put in between.

I suggest peppers and zucchinis and onions and things like that.

But there are other vegetables you could put in between.

So there we go.

A couple of pieces, you can throw them in there.

-Lovely bright color to bring to these.

-Yeah.

I'm going to take this onion and make sure we have some nice little pieces to put in between.

It'll add some flavor to it when it's cooking, and it certainly adds to the aroma of things.

-Mm-hmm.

-Alright, get rid of this.

And then we can do some... Let's do the pork marinade.

-Okay.

-Because this one is fun.

You want to add the onions to that or you did already?

-I already got some.

-Okay.

So now I have some lean pork, relatively lean, and I'm going to cube that.

And what are you putting into this marinade?

-Let's see here.

We're going to do a little bit of ginger, a clove of garlic, some olive oil.

-Okay.

Great.

-Some soy sauce.

-Ooh.

Nice.

-And just a dash of sesame oil.

-You know, that's like a secret ingredient, that sesame oil.

If you don't have it, it's a wonderful thing to keep in your house.

And you can, like, buy one bottle every ten years because you only use, like, a few drops in a recipe.

I've got to turn these.

Hold on.

[ Sizzling ] There we go.

-When you're grilling on the 4th of July, you'll probably have some tongs, but over here... -[ Laughs ] We're roughing it.

-[ Laughs ] -Okay, so I'm going to take this out of the way.

-Okay.

-And I'm going to get my... This is a little bit of ginger, and I'm just going to... -I love the flavor that ginger imparts to stuff.

-Yeah.

-Great bite, spiciness.

-Again, this is sort of an Asian... ...reflection.

There we go.

I'm going to do the same thing for a piece of garlic.

-Honestly, I have never tried to do the knife smash on ginger, and I was just amazed how you did that.

It was like a magic trick.

-Well, yeah.

You know, I learned this from watching other people's shows on TV.

I watched Jacques Pépin, and he's the one who taught me about this smashing of garlic.

And also he said you can do the same thing with ginger.

So there it goes.

Yeah, I smash it.

Then I chop it a little bit, and then you just work your knife and press it down again, and it gets all of those essential oils out of the garlic and into the food that you're eating, rather than just have a solid piece of garlic, which wouldn't flavor it very much at all.

-And it's not like we're going to get any of the garlic onto the skewer, but it'll help release the most potently into the marinade here.

-I think we're going to use a couple of onions in that.

-Okay.

Do you want to get some squash?

-We'll get a little bit of squash.

I like to use these little, uh, grape tomatoes.

They have a lot of flavor and they taste good all year round.

But they'll be really good in July.

[ Laughs ] And during the summer.

I got to turn these again.

-Now this bag, I wouldn't bother necessarily adding extra salt to just because of the soy sauce.

-Oh, yeah.

That'll -- -It's already salty enough.

-Yeah.

Alright.

We're going to do one more.

-Okay.

And that'll be for our chicken.

-Yes, we're going to do chicken.

And I did that last so that we can then clean the board.

-Yes.

-And make sure it doesn't contaminate anything else.

Um, there are some people who, you know, chicken is their favorite thing to have, uh, at any time.

And, um, kids love it.

The chicken nuggets and whatnot.

So this is like chicken nuggets on a stick.

[ Both chuckle ] And if you see, I like to cut the cubes fairly small so that they cook very quickly.

And what's the marinade for that?

-So this one, we've got olive oil and balsamic vinegar and a little bit of dried basil.

Although, you know, if it's the summer, you happen to be growing some fresh basil, I'm sure that would go great in here, too.

-Well, I don't want to scare anybody, so I may not put the red pepper in there.

Kids will think that's something weird, but maybe -- maybe they could stand a little bit of the yellow pepper.

Just a piece or two.

Ooh, a lot of basil.

-[ Joseph chuckles ] -Okay.

Alright.

-So now we've got to skewer some up.

-Okay.

-You have some skewers sitting in, uh, water.

We've been -- Because this will help them from going on fire when you're trying to, uh, to cook them.

So get me, uh, get me one of those bags.

I'll do one, and you do the other.

-Sure.

So there's the swordfish.

-Oh, okay.

-I'll take the, uh, pork here.

Obviously, you know, how long would you say is the least amount of time you would marinate this normally?

-Well, the swordfish doesn't need much time at all.

It needs about, you know, maybe 15, 20 minutes.

Um, the -- the chicken and the pork, you could marinate that overnight.

-Yeah.

-Um, and I also have, uh, in this recipe, um, marinades for lamb and shrimp and, um... So, yeah.

Okay.

I think we get the idea.

There we are.

We're putting them on there and flavoring them up with little bits of vegetables in between.

And then all you do is... Ooh, that looks really good.

-Well, thank you.

-Alright.

Let's drop some of those onto... Um, onto the, um, the grill and taste some of the ones that I've been cooking.

Alright.

Oh, we got them right there.

-Okay.

-Alright.

[ Sizzling ] -Okay.

Give me one second.

-Got that.

And now... Well, I took the ones, the shrimp ones off.

Do you mind tasting?

-Shrimp sounds great to me.

-Okay.

-So let's see here.

Alright.

-It's not too hot.

-It's a finger food, isn't it?

-Yeah.

It is.

-Okay.

[ Both blowing ] -Be careful it's not too hot.

Mmm.

-Mmm.

-Mm.

-Oh, I love the a little bit of char on that.

Mm-hmm.

-Not so much a recipe as it is a technique for marinating and skewering and roasting these on your next barbecue and hopefully during your 4th of July celebration.

-Alright, we are back in the kitchen and we have here with us Doug Heilman.

Doug, so great to have you here in our kitchen.

Doug you may recognize from a series called... -"The Great American Recipe" season 3 on PBS.

-That's right.

And that's where Doug made his national TV debut, I guess.

-That's right.

That's right.

-Unless the operas that you were -- No, no, no.

-No, no, that would be my big thing.

[ Both laugh ] -Anyway, Doug, what are we going to be making today?

-Well, we're making a recipe that you introduced me to called chicken-sicles, which essentially, I love it.

-Yeah.

-It's a popsicle drumstick.

-Oh.

Great.

Okay.

-Yeah.

-Actually, this recipe, the original name for it was chocolate chicken.

And my granddaughter Josie gave it that name because it has a marinade that includes some soy sauce.

-Dark things.

-Dark things.

-She thought it was chocolate?

-Yeah, she thought this was all chocolate flavored.

-Oh.

-So she loved it.

She thought, what a great idea.

It's not only chicken which she eats.

-Yeah.

-But it's chocolate.

So, you know.

-Let's go with that.

-Yeah, let's go with it, so... -I have to say, when I was a youngster, the drumstick was my favorite piece of meat anyway when somebody was serving chicken at a picnic or barbecue or something.

But I like what you've done with them.

And so I was working on a few earlier here, but we'll show everybody else what we're doing.

Right where the drumstick starts to taper... -Where the meat ends.

-Yeah, where the meat kind of ends, we're just making a cut all around there and we're removing it.

And I've kind of seen this on, like, lamb chops, right?

They do that sometimes.

I think they call it frenching.

-Yeah.

To take all of the stuff from around the bone off.

-Right.

And it's a little bit of a process, but I think if you keep it flat on the board, it's a little safer.

-And then just keep turning it.

-Yeah.

And make sure you have a sharp knife.

And then I notice there's a couple tendons there.

So I just sort of kind of pull those out.

And, um, eventually we get to that ending piece to take it off, yes.

-Take that off, yeah.

-But they cook up really nicely when the meat starts to, uh, you know, it shrinks a little bit.

It really looks like a popsicle stick, which is amazing.

And I think -- I think that's probably good here.

So I'm just going to push that up.

I've done a few more.

So I'm going to throw these in.

And then we've got a marinade to make.

And while I wash my hands, would you maybe chop us a little garlic and ginger here?

-Oh, sure.

-Which is right in the front.

-My, um... -I hear you're good at that.

-This is my forte right here.

[ Laughs ] So a little bit of ginger and a little bit of garlic.

Useful kitchen skills... -That's right.

-...for so many recipes.

And, um, I remember when I was young, my grandmother used to say she didn't cook with garlic.

-What?

-I said, "Gram, you know, garlic tastes good."

[ Stammers ] You know, I got to know things.

And she goes, "Only lower class Italians eat garlic."

-Oh, my goodness.

-I don't know where she got this idea.

-What?

-I know.

Well, it's not true, by the way, because... [ Laughs ] -I heard a lot of folks, they put the garlic in something, but then they would take it out.

So you almost didn't know it was there, right?

But this we know it's here.

So as you're working on that, I'll tell you some of the other ingredients.

I like that term, the chocolate marinade.

But there's nothing chocolate in here.

We have a little bit of canola oil just to give everything a little bit more richness.

This is soy sauce, which gives it that dark color.

-Mm-hmm.

-And I'm sure you could do a different marinade or something.

Or barbecue sauce, too.

This is just one, like, what you showed earlier.

-You can use any of the marinades that we showed earlier.

It could be, like, a lemon and parsley.

-Delicious.

-You know, whatever flavors that you like in your chicken, they can put that marinade in there.

It'll work just fine.

-Yeah.

-Or even barbecue sauce.

-Or even barbecue sauce.

-This is a little bit of sugar.

Or I've used honey in the past, too, for something like this.

-Yeah.

-This is rice wine vinegar.

-Mm-hmm.

-And it gives a nice brightness here.

-Mm-hmm.

-And then one of my favorite items is this toasted sesame oil.

-Sesame oil.

-I know, it's just -- -We use that in one of the -- the marinades.

-Okay.

Yeah.

It's just great.

-But again, you use, like, drops of it.

-It's very potent, isn't it?

-Yes.

-And that looks great.

And what I did, too, is, you know, you could do this in a bowl or a shallow dish, but I love a zipper top bag to kind of put everything in.

Thank you so much with that garlic and ginger.

Wait.

I got a little bit more.

-Yeah, let's not waste it.

-[ Laughs ] -Alright.

I'm going to give this a little bit of a seal.

And then this is where you could bring the kids back in, I think, for something fun.

-Oh, yeah.

-Do a little massage, right?

-Get it all... -Right.

-...massaged, and you could store this overnight even.

-Right.

I mean, that's what I have done.

And the other thing is, what I love about drumsticks is number one, they're economical.

And two, you can sort of cook them to death.

They're very forgiving.

So if someone wants to do it on the grill, I like to sear them high heat first and then move them to sort of a cooler side to finish.

Or if you didn't have access to a grill, you could -- you could do these in the oven for like, say, 35, 40 minutes at 350, 375.

And they come out nice that way, too.

But we would pretend these were overnight.

-What I -- I like to do these on the grill, and what I do on my grill at home is to turn the one side burner on.

-Yes.

-Okay.

And then I put the chicken-sicles on the other side and they cook.

And as soon as I feel like they're getting cooked, I'll take a temperature.

You know, if it's over 160, then I will flop it over onto the other side to get those nice grill marks on it.

-Love that.

I love that.

-And so it's, you know, it works great on a barbecue grill.

If you're using charcoal, just put the charcoal on one side of your grill and again, put the lid on it while it cooks to temperature.

And you can flip it a couple of times.

-Yes.

And we did a couple.

So should we pretend that we've marinated these and throw some more on the grill?

-Yeah, sure.

-Yeah?

Okay.

Okay.

-Time has passed.

-Yes.

I'm going to step behind you.

-Okay.

-And we have some that are done.

But I'd like to get that sear on these ones first, too.

-Is this the one that's -- -Yeah, I think it's on.

But not too -- Get it hot.

-I will.

I will.

Alright.

I'm looking for the best side.

Here we are.

We're getting a sear.

[ Sizzling ] -I hear it.

-Yeah, I hear it.

Lovely.

I'm just going to go a little opposite direction with this guy.

-And I will caution you that when you make this, uh, and you have a lot of kids around, don't hold back.

-Make a lot.

-Make a lot.

Yeah.

Because they go through these, like, in a minute.

They go, "You got any more of these?"

They call me Bob, uh, my grandkids.

-Well, they are like chicken popsicles.

-Yeah, yeah.

So they, you know, they they want to go right at it.

So we're going to sear it first, right?

-Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's right.

I'm going to give it a little sear.

Well, I did have a cooler side like you said.

But we did some earlier.

-Right.

-Do you want to go ahead and taste some?

-Of course I want to taste it.

-I want to get a fresh -- Uh, I'm going to get a fresh -- -Spatula.

-...spatula to get these off the grill.

Here we go.

I like our plates for red, white, and blue.

-Oh, that's right.

-Will this work for you?

-Oh, yeah.

-Okay, I'm going to grab one.

I love that.

-Yeah.

You're going to save money on forks and knives.

-It has its own -- It has its own handle.

-[ Laughs ] -Should we do it?

-Well, yeah.

I always like to give it a taste.

Right in there.

-Cheers.

-Mm-hmm.

Oh, boy.

-Mmm.

Wow.

-I got to say, the thing that I love about it is that chicken is a perfect medium for marinades because... -So many things.

-...it really gets into the -- the center of the -- of the meat so that everything you're tasting is what you put in.

-This marinade is amazing because you've got acid stuff and salty stuff and all those other flavor bombs with the garlic and ginger.

It's just, it's terrific.

-Yeah.

I think that the basis of any marinade is an acid, some kind of salty thing, and then a flavor element.

If it has those three things, it's going to be a good marinade.

-This is a winner-winner chicken-sicle.

-Chicken-sicle.

-[ Laughs ] -Winkle-winkle.

-I love that.

I love that.

[ Both laugh ] -Doug, it's always great to -- -So much fun.

-I'm so glad that you're here in our town so that we can have you do this, as well as watching you on, uh, on TV on other PBS specials.

-Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

-Alright.

We're back in the kitchen.

And I got to tell you whether it was for a picnic or it was for a backyard barbecue or for the 4th of July, my girls loved macaroni and cheese.

As a matter of fact, before they were born, I should have bought stock in Kraft because I used to get those little boxes and make Kraft macaroni and cheese for them.

It wasn't part of my tradition, but I know it's a great American tradition, and we have with us here today Shayla Penn.

Shayla, it's great to see you.

-Nice to meet you.

-And, you know, you're sort of famous around this town.

Shayla makes, uh, all kinds of treats and foods and catering.

And what she does -- -I say soul food with a healthy twist.

-Okay.

[ Both laugh ] -What's the healthy twist in this one?

Because this one looks like -- Not not this one.

Yeah.

-No, not -- We're not going to count this one.

-There's no twist in this.

Just this.

Just do this twist.

But Shayla, I saw your recipe for macaroni and cheese, baked macaroni and cheese, and it just was so enticing.

I put on 2 pounds actually reading the recipe, so I knew it was going to be good because, you know, it's just good.

These are all good ingredients and they're all simple ingredients, things that anybody can get a hold of.

So walk us through this whole recipe.

Let's make some macaroni and cheese.

-Yes, absolutely.

So I am the official mac and cheese maker in my family.

And I don't mind, because literally, it takes me 10 minutes from start to finish after the noodles are boiled to get it done and in the oven, so I don't mind it.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-Now you make this in large quantities when you have a large family around, or do you make it small amounts, just, like, for dinner or...?

-I don't know how to make it any less than this size pan.

-We're doing the smallest -- -It doesn't last.

-We're doing the smallest one we could possibly make.

-This is the smallest I could get, and it's gone in 10 minutes.

-Oh, my gosh.

Alright.

-Yes.

-So what do we start?

-So you want to boil your noodles al dente style with heavily salted water.

So that's key because I have minimum ingredients in the actual recipe.

So salted water, al dente, and drain.

You can do it hot or cold to mix it in the mixture.

And then it's this two eggs, garlic powder, onion powder -- I'm sorry.

Onion powder, salt, pepper, so -- -That's it?

Let's get started.

-Okay.

-You can explain as you go along.

-Yeah.

So typically I start with the egg.

-But what I like is that you start with something that already tastes good because this pasta has already been salted and it's in a good texture.

-Yes, yes, yes.

So... Okay.

So the first step is just to beat the eggs.

-I'll take that.

And this is a rouxless mac and cheese.

I don't use a roux.

This is -- makes it even simpler.

-Yeah.

-So if you're feeding a lot of people and you don't have time to make a roux, this is perfect.

-Yeah.

A roux is just a combination of any kind of fat.

Butter or Crisco or oil and flour.

-Right.

-Right?

And then you cook that to brown it a little bit or just cook off the flour flavor.

But that's what thickens, like, gravies and things like that.

-Right, right.

Yeah.

Typically I, you know, most people do, you know, do a cheese roux.

So you just add the cheese slowly to flour, butter, you know, but I don't have time for that today.

[ Both laugh ] -So you've made it easy.

-Yes, I've made it simple for you guys.

-Right.

-So then you just add in the half and half.

I don't use -- I don't use heavy cream because that's the healthy kick.

So you can just combine these two together.

So this is whole milk and half and half.

So you want to blend these two together.

Give it a quick whisk again.

-But you don't have to beat it.

It doesn't -- -No.

You don't have to beat it.

Yeah.

You just don't want clumps of eggs in there.

So after you're done doing that, then you can add it to the mac and cheese.

-Really?

Okay.

-Yeah.

Yeah.

-Now, let me ask you a question about, um, your family and when you get together.

You said you're the maker of the mac and cheese.

-Yes.

-Now, how did somebody designate you?

What --?

-Well, typically in the African American family, um, the elders decide who makes the mac and cheese.

So you get tested and you get approved, and then you're designated for now until forever.

[ Both laugh ] So this is just a cheese sauce that you can find anywhere.

It's just a typical cheese sauce.

So this is pretty much what takes place for the roux.

-Right.

-So you're just going to add this in there.

-And that just comes out of a jar, right?

-Just out of a jar.

You'll find it.

You can find it anywhere.

And then you're also going to fold that in as well.

-See, my mom used to use Velveeta.

That was her cheese, you know.

-It's a little bit too rich for me, for my taste.

But, I mean, you can -- I'm sure you can use that as well.

So there's that.

And then you're going to stir.

I'm going to incorporate all those.

And you want it to be soupy.

So if it looks a little loose that's fine because the cheese is going to bind everything together.

And you want that creaminess still, you know, you don't want it to be dried out, so... -I mean, that's another good reason to just cook the pasta to al dente.

-Yes.

-Because that means it's going to have the ability to soak in more of the liquid as it cooks.

-Exactly, exactly.

So if you see that it's a little bit too dry, then you want to add more half and half.

But this is perfect.

This is a perfect mix right here.

So... -And you make this -- this -- I don't know what this is.

A 9 by 13 or 9 1/2 by 13 1/2.

-Yes.

So this typically -- -But deep, like four inches.

-Yes, deep.

Yeah.

You want it to be almost halfway because, you know, I've learned trial and error that I've had many spills and many smoke and alarms setting off.

So you want it to be almost halfway in the pan because the cheese is going to make it rise, and then the butter is going to... And then that's when it overflows.

So halfway is when you know you're doing it right.

So then I just typically add salt.

So I added a pretty heavy size portion of salt.

It's typically, like, two almost tablespoons because you're not using any other real... -Flavoring.

-Flavoring, yeah.

So the salt is where the flavor is.

-And you mix that in.

-Yes.

And tons of pepper.

Tons of pepper.

I love pepper.

-You're going to like that pepper shaker there.

-I need -- I need to take this home.

[ Both laugh ] But tons of pepper, I don't know.

I mean, this is to taste.

So if you don't want it as salty, don't use as much salt.

And if you don't want it peppery, don't -- Easy on the pepper or no pepper.

It's all up to what your taste buds like.

-I'm all with you with the pepper.

I really like that flavor, pepper and cheese.

-Right.

-Okay.

-And then garlic powder.

-Okay.

-I mean, I'm sorry, onion powder.

I'm sorry.

Onion powder.

-Nothing wrong with garlic powder.

-Yeah, nothing wrong with garlic powder.

But I think I've tried garlic powder.

It makes it a little too... -Mm-hmm.

-Yeah, a little too -- -Too prominent.

Yeah.

-A little too prominent.

So once you get that in there, it's just... And you can use any cheese you want.

But I keep it simple.

I keep it simple.

So, sharp cheese, mild cheese I always incorporate the mild cheese first.

-Okay.

-Because, I don't know, you get that crispiness and that sharp taste in that nice crust with the sharp cheese.

-Yeah, so... -So we're going to use the mild cheese.

It's a lot.

But you want it cheesy.

-And this is the recipe that's in the book, right?

-Yes.

This is the recipe.

-Okay, good.

-This is exactly the recipe.

But like I said... -No hidden -- No hidden ingredients.

-No hidden ingredients.

No, this is it.

It's very simple.

-The secret is out.

-Yes, the secret is out.

I've never given this recipe out other than my daughter.

So this is a real treat to share this with you, Chris.

-Well, it's a treat for us to have you share it.

-Yes.

-You know, there are some people who don't want to share a recipe.

You know, it's a secret family recipe.

"We don't share this with anybody."

On the other hand, it's so nice to be able to share something and then to think that other people are enjoying what you enjoy.

-Exactly.

-Yeah, that's what we do on these cooking shows all the time is we're sharing.

-And so mac and cheese has an African American background.

Did you know that?

-No I didn't.

-So Thomas Jefferson, his former slave James Hemings, he is the first African American French classically trained chef.

-Oh.

-Yes.

It originated in Italy.

And James -- And President Jefferson, he liked it so much that he had his -- he had him trained and sent back to send -- to bring to America.

-Wow.

-Yeah.

-So he cooked at the White House?

-Yes, it was called -- it was called macaroni pie at first.

-Okay.

-Then it turned into macaroni and cheese.

You know, we have to Americanize everything.

-Yeah.

-But that's how it -- that's how it started.

-Okay.

-So then, you know, that's pretty much it.

And then -- So this is the key to my recipe.

The butter.

The butter is the magic to this recipe.

So what you want to do is cut the quarter in half longways and then across like this.

-In little pieces.

-In little pieces.

So I noticed, trial and error, that if you incorporate the butter this way, it rises and makes that nice crust on top.

So you just plug it in there.

I do four in a row.

-You're very methodical, Shayla.

-Yes, I have -- It has to be this way.

Don't do it any other way, please.

[ Both laugh ] Or it won't come out the same way.

-And you just spell "Shayla" with the butter.

-[ Laughs ] Yes.

And it comes out to be about a stick of butter.

-Yeah.

Stick of butter.

-A stick of butter.

-I think I know that recipe.

-Yeah, a stick of butter.

-A stick of butter.

-A stick of butter.

-Alright.

-So that's in.

You just top it off with the cheese.

-And just put that one.

We don't mix in?

You just top it?

-Nope, you top it, because you want that nice crisp top.

-Right.

-Where you can take your knife and [imitates knife cutting] right across it.

-Yeah.

-And that's pretty much it.

-Okay.

Going to get it all on there.

-All on there.

-Now we've got to have a taste of -- Because we have one that's already cooked.

-Yes.

Yes.

Already cooked.

-Alright.

We're going to put this one over here.

-Okay.

-[ Grunts ] -Let me grab this one.

-Okay.

-I think it's cooled off by now.

-Is it cooled off?

-Yep.

It's perfect.

See that?

-Yeah.

Alright.

We got a plate over there and some forks.

Yeah.

Okay.

And a serving spoon here.

-Okay.

Perfect.

[ Spoon scraping ] See?

Hear that?

-Oh, wow.

That is crunchy.

-Yes.

Cheese pull.

-Shayla, this looks... I gotta make sure I'm not going to burn the roof.

-Yes.

It's still hot.

What do you think?

-Oh my goodness.

I've had macaroni and cheese all over the place, but this is perfect.

The texture of it, the flavor of it, the color of it, the look of it.

I love the crunch on the top.

-You love it.

That's the -- That's the key.

-Shayla, thank you for sharing.

-You're welcome.

-We're all in on the secret now.

-The secret's out.

-This is how do you make Shayla Penn's baked macaroni.

-Yes.

-Macaroni and cheese.

-Yes.

Macaroni and cheese.

-Oh, right.

[ Applause ] -Alright, I don't know about you, but when I go to a picnic, you know, there's hot dogs, there's hamburgers, maybe there's some, uh, ribs or something like that.

But what I really look forward to are all the side dishes.

And we have Jim Barron here who has been a friend to our cooking shows for many, many, many years.

And he submitted a recipe for a horseradish potato salad.

Jim, this is a little strange, you know.

-It's just a little variation.

-Yeah.

-I mean, it's basically potato salad, so we'll just jazz it up a little bit, if horseradish is jazzing it up.

-Yeah.

-So we're gonna get started.

-Get started.

Yeah.

-Nice and easy.

Um, since it is potato salad, I mean, we're basically doing cooking techniques more than a cooking recipe here.

So we already have our potatoes here which have been cooked.

They would be started in cold water and brought up to a boil, brought down, then, to a high simmer, low boil or whatever for about 20 minutes or until basically when you take the potato and put a knife in it or so and it easily comes out.

-Comes right off.

-So about 20 minutes or so.

So we got all those.

Now we can cut these into -- in half if you want or just put it in, because we have, for the holiday, red, white, and blue.

-Alright.

We have red, white, and blue potatoes.

-So we're just going to add all those.

-Okay.

-Alright.

Now with those, if we pretend these are really hot and they just came out of the water.

-Just came out.

-Okay.

A lot of steam.

Alright.

So, um, at that point what you would do is as soon as you're able to hold or touch them, if you wanted to, you could peel them, if they were bigger or whatever.

Obviously, we're doing this for the holiday season.

And so what we want to add, then, to this is something so that the dressing doesn't absorb too much into the potatoes and become mushy, for lack of a better term.

-Okay.

-So what we're going to do is add some Lemon juice.

-Mm-hmm.

-And we'll just do it this way.

-You got all the seeds?

-Eh, either in my hand or in -- or in the bowl.

One or two.

Alright.

And then we're going to add a little bit of vegetable oil.

-Mm-hmm.

-Then we're going to add some salt, a pinch of salt.

-A pinch.

-Alright.

Yeah.

If I asked you to do a pinch of salt.

-Well... -Right?

-Yeah.

-A pinch of salt in a restaurant kitchen?

Three.

-Yeah.

-Or possibly four fingers.

So a good pinch of salt.

The potatoes really don't have, you know, a lot of flavor to them and all that stuff.

So also, then we're just going to mix that up.

And obviously, like I said, this would be hot.

And that way you've coated all the potatoes and let them cool down.

-And you do want them to be warm when you -- when you start the mixing.

-Yes.

Yeah.

Actually, as soon as you can, uh, hold them, if you're going to remove the skins, peel them then.

And then they're still hot, you add that mixture of the oil, the lemon juice, and the salt, and then let that cool down.

-Yeah.

-Once that's cooled down, then we'll add our, um, flavorings for it.

And what we're going to add first is some celery.

-Okay.

-Two ribs of celery.

I like to normally just peel it.

-Yeah.

Because those strands that are out on the -- on the backside there are, um... -Yeah.

-They're tough.

Yeah.

-Yeah.

And so I don't think you really want to watch me peel celery.

So we're just going to pretend that we did that.

And then, uh, by the way, you promised me there was no more chopping.

[ Both laugh ] I didn't have to do knife work here, but that's okay.

We'll do a little bit.

-Well, we haven't progressed that far.

We're still actually cooking some of these things.

We often refer to the thing about the magic of television where we're starting to do something and we go, nah, that's going to take 10 minutes.

And then we reach behind us and there's something already done.

-And some nice person has already done that for you.

-Has already done that.

-So we add our celery.

-Adds a little crunch, too.

-Right.

And then a little bit of onion.

One more.

-Okay.

-And you're supposed to do this, but it's silly because there's already layers.

-I've never quite understood that.

But that's a technique that Jacques Pépin promotes, you know, to put those side slices in.

-I see it all the time.

And I was like, why do we need that?

And then you learn when to stop when fingers are involved.

And then we just add that also.

And then, again, this is just standard -- -On the 4th of July, do you do any special celebration or is it something that your family, you know, is just a normal...?

-It's -- Yeah.

No, we'll do barbecue is obviously... So like you said, all the sides, um, potato salad, coleslaw we do and all that.

Then to this we're going to add... We need a dressing.

And so we have mayonnaise and we're using cider vinegar here.

-Oh.

-Okay.

We'll just mix that up.

And then, again, to -- this is a basic dressing for any, um, thing.

You'll see this in potato salad, macaroni salad, um, creamy coleslaw.

You know, there might be different variations of it, but it's pretty much the basic stuff.

-Okay.

-And now then we add this, the seasonings.

And the first thing is let's just put that right there.

Ah, more chopping.

-[ Laughs ] -Alright.

-Well, it's especially hard when you're a lefty.

You know.

See?

I have to stand on this side of you.

-[ Jim laughs ] -Always blame the left-handed people.

-[ Laughs ] My son is left-handed.

-There you go.

-Michelangelo was left-handed.

I think, uh, da Vinci might have been.

-And they knew what they were doing.

-They did some pretty good stuff.

-Yeah.

-Okay, so we have our dill.

There we go.

And then the one seasoning, hence the first name of the recipe, horseradish.

This is just plain, um, grated horseradish.

It usually comes in a bottle with vinegar and a little bit of salt.

-Mm-hmm.

-And then we add the dressing.

No specific order.

-Mm-hmm.

-Okay.

And then just mix that up.

So, like I said, we're working a little bit more of techniques rather than the recipe because most people know how to make potato salad.

-Well... But -- -In general.

And then the main thing is you want this to sit in the refrigerator.

-Yeah.

-lease.

Let's get our health notices out there.

-It's got mayonnaise in it.

-It has the mayonnaise in it.

And yeah, here's where the controversy comes in.

-Yeah.

-To egg or not to egg.

-Oh, yeah.

We're gonna egg.

-Okay.

Because I got people... -No eggs.

-...with the no eggs.

Alright.

And so you already have some hard boiled eggs here.

So let's -- -We hope.

-We hope.

So let's do it.

-A very large knife for a very small job.

-But we got it.

Now -- So one -- One way to do that if we have it like this.

Now if you have people that -- yes, egg, and people that no, egg.

So what you can do is just put it off to the side.

-And then people can pick an egg if they want it.

-And then that way you either go to the egg side or you go to the non-egg side.

Refrigerate that at least for a couple of hours.

-Yeah.

-Good to go.

-Okay, so now we've used up all the ingredients and -- -Yeah, I think so.

-Fortunately, we have one through the magic of television, as they -- as we sometimes refer.

We have one that has been in the fridge.

So that's nice and cold.

I-I figured we were all egg people.

-Everybody.

Yeah.

-So... Well, let's have a taste of this.

I got to see what this tastes like.

I want this at my picnic.

-And you have the -- -Oh, the spoon.

-The spoon, I believe.

-Yeah.

-Thank you.

With my left hand, I will get you an egg.

-Yes, please.

-There we go.

And a fork.

-And a fork.

You can have some, too.

-I sure will.

-Okay, so the one that we made before, we did cut up the potatoes a little bit just for serving.

But you can cut the whole ones on your plate.

-It would probably depend on the size of the potato.

If they're those little tiny things, then we just... Now this is sort of the horseradish -- Again, horseradish potato salad.

And it's more or less you don't really know it's horseradish, but there's something in there that's different.

-And it's the first thing you taste.

-Right.

And it's sort of like nutmeg.

You know, people say, "What's in that?

What's that, what's that?"

And, well, a lot of times it's maybe like a nutmeg or something in different dishes.

-Again, even though you might not say, "Oh, I taste the horseradish," there's a flavor that comes right up off of it that's different from other potato salads.

You know it right away.

But it's nice and creamy.

-Mm-hmm.

-I could eat this all day.

-There we go.

-It's great.

-Really nice.

-Thank you for coming and sharing your, uh, your great, uh, picnic and barbecue food here for the "Flavors of the Fourth."

This is a flavor for your fourth.

-Oh, we're back in the kitchen.

And I got to tell you something.

When we started asking for recipes for this new cookbook, I was amazed at how many recipes there were for beans.

And then I remembered, oh, beans.

I got to call my friend BBQ Stu.

Stu, it's great to see you, as always.

But Stu, uh, is famous for his barbecue sauce, but he's also famous for his baked beans, and, uh, I've had them.

I've tried to make them myself.

Uh, they never come as good as his, but they come pretty darn good.

And you sent us your recipe, so that's what we're going to follow.

Now, tell me where this recipe came from.

Where did you...?

-I'm not satisfied just doing status quo.

So what I ended up doing was I started making beans, like everybody else does.

And I'm tasting.

Well, this would taste better if I did this and if I did this and if I did that.

So I just throw -- keep throwing things in until I'm satisfied.

-Okay.

And now you're satisfied.

-Well, I'll still be working on some more.

-Well, what should we get started with here?

Because we got all the beans and we have some other of your throw-ins that you put together.

So should we put the beans in first or...?

-Yeah, I'll say we can throw the beans in there and then we can do the peppers and the onions.

-Yeah.

Okay.

So you start with a variety of beans, right?

-Exactly.

-It's not just -- I mean, we have some simple pork and beans, right?

-Mm-hmm.

-That's one of the things.

-And I always tell people use the cheapest that you can find, because by the time you get done using all the other ingredients, they're going to taste just like gourmet beans anyway.

-Yeah.

Okay, so this is some chili beans.

Which is the same as the baked beans, except that they're, um, they have a flavored sauce.

-Mm-hmm.

-This is some simple kidney beans.

I'm using the light red ones.

But you could use the dark ones, too.

-Mm-hmm.

-Alright.

-The good thing about this is you can make it vegetarian, or you can throw any types of meats in it that you want also.

-Oh, okay.

So it's easy to vary it.

-Exactly.

-Yeah.

And, um, this is my favorite, the butter beans, because they have such a great texture.

-Exactly.

-And it's not -- You don't normally find that.

Usually kidney beans and pinto beans and all of those, but not the, um -- -If I'm doing it for myself, I'll make twice as many butter beans in there.

-Yeah.

-Because it gives you a little bit more earthy flavor and... -Well, this is a good dish to make ahead of time and bring to a picnic or to a barbecue.

-There you go.

-And, uh, a great side dish.

Alright, I'm going to get them all mixed together in there.

What's next?

-Uh, I would say the onions.

-Okay.

And how how finely do you want these chopped?

-Um, I would say like a medium.

Medium.

I've had some people, they've done it where they've just used big chunks of it, but I don't like it that much.

But it does give you perfect flavoring off of it.

-You get all that onion flavor.

-Mm-hmm.

-Okay.

I've got all those.

And if you -- I mean, if you want, you can get around -- You could be the mixer and I'll be the cutter.

We make a team here.

-And then I'll just start folding these in.

-Alright.

And now we're going to do the whole pepper?

Or do you want the other half of the onion, too?

-Uh, it looks like this would be good, the way we're doing it now.

And about a half of pepper.

-Okay.

-The pepper, I actually started doing that just because of the color.

Just to break the color up a little bit.

-Now, do you use, uh, green ones or red ones?

-I used to use the green, yellow, and the red.

-Oh, okay.

-Actually, the smaller ones just to...Mainly for color.

-Yeah.

Well, they do add flavor, too.

-Mm-hmm.

-What I'm -- I am surprised that you -- I mean, this is going to cook for a long time.

Um, that you -- that you don't saute these uh, you know, as sort of like the base flavor, but... -The reason I don't saute them, to me, I like to let the flavor come out.

Since they're going to be cooking so long, let the flavor just slowly come out into the -- -Into the sauce, yeah.

Okay.

Now, how long have you been known as BBQ Stu?

-I opened the company in 2006.

-Oh, okay.

[ Laughs ] 2006.

Oh, my gosh.

-Yeah.

I'm old.

[ Both laugh ] -What I love is that Stu is also very involved in a local church here in our town, and you have the best pancake breakfasts that I have ever gone to.

They're making fluffy light pancakes.

The sausage is the best and locally sourced, as I understand it.

And um, so I love to go there for your, um, your pancake breakfasts.

-That's it.

We love having you.

You know, we, um, we do -- That's one of our most successful, uh, things that we do there.

-And I think you should do a barbecue.

-We actually did.

-Did you?

-Yeah.

-I didn't get invited.

[ Laughs ] -I thought I called you.

-You probably did.

I'm just teasing you.

It's great what you do with kids, too, because I know I've been over there and, um, worked with, uh, cooking some things with the kids.

-Yeah, we had the celebrity kids' kitchen.

We started that, and, um, we ended up -- We did it good until COVID came in.

-Yeah, and then we stopped.

-And then we had to stop.

And when we tried to bring it back, we realized that the kids that we were using, they were all, too, they were getting older.

In fact, one of the guys that would always come when he was 12 years old, he just had his, I think it was his 19th birthday.

-Oh, my gosh.

-And it's like, oh, wow.

-So now we got these going.

We got the heat under it.

We're going to add some other flavoring elements.

Right?

What do we got?

-We can go with the molasses.

-Oh, yeah.

Ooh.

You're going to have to spoon that out with your little spatula.

You know, we were talking about molasses the other day and... -There we go.

-I always have molasses in my cabinet at home, and -- But it seems like I use, like, a teaspoon.

-I was going to say, you probably don't use very much.

-Every, you know, every two years I look up and say, oh, no, I still got, I got.

I still have molasses.

So it's a great investment because you just buy it and keep it in -- and the flavor -- -You have it forever.

-Right.

You only have to buy it once.

But the flavoring that it adds to so many things, whether it's a sauce or just, you know, baked beans.

And, um, it seems to me that it also helps with the texture sometimes because it's so nice and thick.

-Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

-Yeah.

It's a great flavor.

-Okay.

-Alright.

-We can just throw that in.

-Oh, brown -- brown sugar.

-Yep.

-Does it matter light or dark?

-Um, I actually prefer the dark but I don't think it matters.

It's just that the flavor I'm looking for is, you know.

-Now here's the thing we got to talk about because -- -That's the surprise element.

-The surprise element.

And, um, is either, as you told me, crushed pineapple or apple pie filling.

-I prefer the apple pie filling more than anything.

-Yeah.

-Mainly because I got a sweet tooth, so... -[ Laughs ] But what gave you the idea to put apple pie filling into baked beans?

-Because nobody ever did it.

-[ Laughs ] Just wanted to be different.

-That's it.

I got to make it different.

-Alright, well, I can start to smell that now.

-Mm-hmm.

-And how long does this cook?

-Um... There's times I've actually had it cooking for, like, two hours, but usually an average of about 45 minutes is usually it.

-It's enough?

-Yeah.

-Okay.

And then you put it and let it cook in the oven?

Or do you bake it?

-I usually use a smoker.

-Oh.

-So I throw it in the smoker.

And, you know, I'll leave the lid on for about the first maybe half hour.

And then I take the lid off, let the smoke get into it.

-Right.

Dry it up, too, a little bit.

-Mm-hmm.

-Alright.

We're going to add the secret ingredient -- apple pie filling.

Oh, boy.

That is going to be sweet, because that's some thick stuff right there.

And when do you add the barbecue sauce?

-Then you need one more thing.

-Well, we need -- Yeah, we need two more things, but... -Well, one's near the end.

-Yeah.

Okay.

And that's some barbecue sauce.

-You definitely need to use the barbecue sauce.

-There you go.

And this is your original.

So it's like the standard barbecue sauce.

-And if you don't use my sauce, I'm not responsible for when it doesn't turn out.

-[ Chris laughs ] Well, you know, somebody was telling me that they went to, like, a museum of barbecue sauce, and there's, like, thousands of barbecue sauces.

A lot of them regional and whatnot.

But I can't believe that there are that many variations to -- -When I got into the barbecue sauces, we did some research and they told us there was an average of 23,000 different barbecue sauces out there.

-Wow.

And you still went in?

[ Laughs ] -Yeah.

Now, I ask myself why.

-Alright.

We got -- So after this cooks or while it's cooking?

-No, I usually use it when it's done and I put that right on the top, like, the last 10 minutes.

-Oh, okay.

-You know, just to -- -Yeah.

The recipe calls for crumbled bacon.

Now we have...we have some that's already heated up.

So let's put this aside to cook.

-I'm going to slide that down.

-I got the heat on it.

I'm going to move that down and move this one over.

Oh, boy.

And this one is... Oh, yeah.

Nice.

-And I've seen some people put liquid smoke in it, but I don't even think about doing that.

-Well, no because you're actually smoking it.

So you want to sprinkle on or you want...?

-Yeah.

Just sprinkle them on there.

-This is not going to hurt the flavor at all.

Alright.

Now we got to have a taste, Stu.

-There you go.

-And I'm going to make sure that we both get some of those crumbles, too.

Alright, just have a taste and I'll have one.

-Thank you.

-And obviously you don't need salt or anything on this.

-Exactly.

-Plenty of salt in the sauces and everything.

And I have to always make sure that I get a little piece of the apple.

Mm.

-I think you did it right.

-Oh, my.

That's why I make it.

-There you go.

-And you can make it, too.

Stu has been really generous to share with us A lot of his recipes that have to do with barbecues, and that's what you'll be doing on this 4th of July, the 250th anniversary of the first 4th of July.

And we hope you'll be making BBQ Stu's beans, uh, for your outing and gathering this special year.

-You know we've been talking about the "Flavors of the Fourth."

But what flavor is more American than apple pie?

-Ooh, I second that.

Totally second that.

-So when we were looking through some of the desserts, I said, "I have one that I'll put in the book," and that is for apple hand pies, but these are from scratch.

You could substitute things to make it even easier.

But, you know, I just can't make it too easy.

So I'm going to show you, first of all, how to make a very quick apple pie crust or any kind of pie crust.

-Okay.

-And that is to use 2 cups of flour.

And I put it into my food processor with the cutting thing on it.

And I'm going to put in -- Oh, yeah.

This is 3/4 cup of Crisco, actually.

It happens to be the Crisco that's flavored or looks like butter, but it's just Crisco.

You could use the plain Crisco.

-Now, is this some -- Is this your basic pie dough kind of recipe?

This isn't anything special you're doing.

-No, no, no, no.

-Okay.

-And then I add just a pinch of salt.

-Yeah.

Two pinches.

-And then I put this thing on and I'm going to whir it just one, two, three.

-Oh, you are being very judicious with this.

-And then one, two, three, four, five.

Okay, now, when I -- -You've got that down to a science.

-Well, I've made this like 40 times in the last week because I made some, and then my family ate them all.

And then, you know, I had to make some more.

-That's a good -- -So what you'll see is that the dough with that pulsing has come into, like, little clumps of the Crisco and the flour.

And that's what you want.

You want it to to be clumpy.

-You know there's a pulse setting.

-That's when you push it down.

-Oh, you were using pulse.

-Yes.

-Okay.

-Yeah.

So that you control it.

Now I'm going to add 1/3 cup of water.

-It has an ice cube in it.

-Well, you want it to be cold water.

Alright.

Now I'm going to turn it on.

-Adding it slowly.

-And what you'll see is that that dough is coming right together.

And you don't want to -- You don't want to go crazy.

-No, don't add more.

-No.

And there it is.

There is your pie dough.

-Right.

Go through that timing again on the pulsing.

It was one and then a wait and then two and then wait.

-And then -- -And then five.

Two, three, four, five.

-Well, you know, it's just -- -Okay, no.

Listen, Chris, I need to know exactly.

-Alright.

Now, what I normally do is to put this in some Saran and let it sit and relax a little bit, and the glutens will form a little bit.

And that will make it possible to roll them out.

-Alright.

Two questions.

At room temperature or in a refrigerator?

-Oh, I usually leave it at room temperature.

-Alright.

And when you say for a little bit, do you mean a few minutes or a few hours?

-Oh, you could do, like, a half an hour at least.

-Okay.

Okay.

-You want it to rest.

And it could be just sitting on the counter or it could be in the fridge.

You know, it doesn't really matter.

-It doesn't matter as long as it's sitting and the glutens are doing their thing.

-So now we're going to get all this out of the way, and we're going to put this in here, too.

-Oh, I wish we could really just do that with dirty dishes.

-I know.

-Stuff them underneath.

-Put the dirty dishes underneath.

-My kind of cooking.

-Now, if you would grab me that.

-The dough that has been sitting.

-The dough that has been sitting here.

I'm going to spread a little bit of flour.

-To keep it from sticking.

-Yeah.

As a matter of fact, I use a lot of flour when I'm doing this.

-Yeah?

-Yeah.

And I'm going to just let that... -Oh, like a baby's behind.

-And then I cut this into eight pieces, because you can make eight hand pies out of this one recipe.

You're going to have to make two of these recipes, I can promise you.

-They're that good?

-Oh, yeah.

-Oh, yeah?

-But it's not hard to double.

You just do -- Yeah.

-Yeah.

Right.

As long as you've got the ingredients out and you're doing the work, it is no trouble to double.

-Now if you want to roll some of these into little balls.

-My pleasure.

Yes.

-Alright.

And we're going to just put them over there.

It's easy to handle, isn't it?

-It is.

It kind of takes you back to childhood to do something like this.

-Alright.

Now we're going to rest those.

We could have done all of them, but we're only -- -I'm going to keep doing them while you're doing whatever you're doing.

-Well, now what I'm going to do is to start with the filling, okay?

-Okay.

Can't just do the dough.

-I've got a pan going.

I'm going to put in 4 tablespoons of butter because everything's better with butter.

-And then the more the butter the better the butter.

-And then I'm going to chop the apple.

-Now these are obviously Granny Smiths.

-Well, that's my preference.

I like Granny Smith for pies.

It's a firmer apple and it holds up better under pressure.

-So it's not about the tartness.

For you it's about the texture and its sustainability.

-And, yeah, this takes three apples and you're going to mix it in there.

And we're going to probably not do all three apples, but you get the idea.

I like to make them in fairly small chunks.

-Yeah.

-You could leave them in slices if you want.

It depends upon what you like inside your pie.

-Well, I don't want to bite into something that I'm hand holding that has a big chunk of apple where you've got to bite it in half and half of it falls out.

So I'm with you on cutting them small.

-Because it's a hand pie.

It's not -- -Right.

You're not using a fork and a knife to cut it.

-Yeah.

Alright, so I've got that.

And I need some brown sugar and some white sugar.

-How much?

Do you know?

-Yeah, it's in the recipe.

I think it's 1/4 cup of each.

-Okay.

-Yeah.

-That looks about right.

Yeah.

Plenty.

Got to have sugar for sure.

-Now I need some lemon.

-Lemon?

-I like to use fresh lemons, but... -But in a pinch, if you had to go to your lemon juice bottle in the refrigerator... -You could do that.

Okay.

-Mmm.

I'm smelling lemon.

-Yeah.

And there's no pits.

I don't know if we got seedless.

-Really?

Gosh, you're absolutely right.

It's a seedless lemon.

-I love it.

-I didn't really know there was such things.

-I mean, usually I like to get my hands dirty anyway.

So you put the lemon juice in here with that, and you're going to let this come to -- let me have a little spoon or something.

Yeah.

We're going to stir that around and let it -- -Oh, that smell of apples and lemon together.

It's so classic.

It's so delicious.

What do you need?

-I need some "cimmanonon."

-Cinnamon.

-"Cimmanonon."

-"Cinnamonon."

Ah, okay, we're gonna have to get that out of the cabinet.

Hang on a second.

-Okay.

Going into the resources.

-Got it.

How much?

-Oh, just like a -- just a little bit on the spoon.

Just like 1/2 teaspoon.

-I don't know how much is in here.

-Now you can -- Oh, that's plenty.

All you're trying to do is just season that up.

Now, of course, there would be three apples in here.

Not one apple.

-Right.

-So it would look fuller.

And then here's the thing.

I cook this until the apples start to soften.

And then I add 1 tablespoon of tapioca.

-Tapioca?

-Now, this is instant tapioca.

-I was like, what is that?

-It's amazing.

-Instant tapioca.

-Which you can buy right by all of the baking stuff.

-Yeah, it comes in a package.

-And what this does is that it thickens it so that it's easier to stuff your pies.

-Does it add any flavoring, any taste?

-Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

-No, it's just a thickener.

-Alright, I'm going to move this out of the way.

-Okay.

-And I have some -- As the magic of television, I have some that are -- -Oh, man.

-Still sitting there so you can see they're sort of soft.

-Now, see, that looks delicious to me, right there.

-The tapioca has... -Apples, cinnamon, sugar.

-...really thickened it up a little bit so that it's easier to deal with.

We're going to get rid of these.

We don't need that one.

And now more flour.

Yep.

Okay.

And here's the fun part.

-I suspect you're going to need this.

-Yes.

Well, you know, here's the thing.

Sometimes dough is easy to deal with, and sometimes dough is a misery.

But we're going to hope that it's easy today.

-I hope so.

I hope that the humidity level and the temperature is just what you need it to be because dough is so affected by things.

-We have had that problem here in this kitchen for other recipes.

And I've always said to myself, "I'm never doing dough on air again."

-But so far you're doing okay today.

I mean, we won't know until you get a little further in the process.

-Okay, that's one.

-One.

Alright.

-A little more flour because that's the big thing.

You have to make sure that it doesn't stick.

So I press it down there, put a little bit more on the top.

And now just easy, easy roll.

-I like that kind of a rolling pin without the specific handles on the side.

-I like it too.

-Because you can really control where you're putting the pressure.

-Pressure.

-Excellent.

-I just got one of those pie rollers that you can set it to a certain measurement, like 1/4 inch, 1/8 inch, and then it automatically comes to that size.

-No way.

-Yep.

-I didn't know such a thing existed.

-Alright, so here we go.

-Okay, we got two.

One for you, one for me.

We're good.

-We're just showing, you know.

Alright.

So now I've got this.

-Ooh, ooh, ooh.

Looks like just enough for two, maybe three right there.

-No, this is plenty because -- -Really?

You don't put much in there.

-No, not too much.

And it's just one person, one serving here.

So okay.

-Smells so good.

-I'm going to give you one over here.

-Okay.

-And... -There we go.

-Alright.

And here's what I do.

-Show me.

-I just take one side and I flop it over before you get to the end.

-Before you get to the end.

-Or right at the end.

But you got to seal that up pretty good.

And then I wrap the under part over.

-I understand why you'd go before the end.

That holds it in place.

-Okay.

-Okay.

-So now you put these -- You do them all.

You put them on a -- I use a sheet tray with parchment paper, and I put two slits.

Ooh.

Yours looks... -Oh, what can I say?

-Give me a break.

You're doing great.

-Beginner's luck.

That's it.

Beginner's luck.

-Alright.

I also sometimes will put a glaze of... -Egg white.

-Egg white or milk and sugar.

-Ooh.

I've never heard of milk and sugar.

-Oh, yeah.

-I was just assuming it was going to be egg whites.

-Nope.

And then they come out and they look like this.

-Look at that.

Is this milk and sugar?

-Yes.

-Look at that.

-Move those out of the way.

And there we have our hand pies.

-Those are rustic looking.

-Well... -Peasant food.

-Do you want to split one?

-Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Ooh, ooh, ooh.

-There you go.

We can have them right here.

Just like a after-the-picnic snack.

-Mmm.

Mmm.

-I need a cup of coffee.

-Mmm.

That's delicious and very manageable.

-Yeah.

So this would be a great addition to your next picnic and maybe your famous picnic on this 250th anniversary of the 4th of July.

And this is one of the great "Flavors of the Fourth."

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